Mozart was one of the greatest musical geniuses in history who wrote incredible sacred music and was raised in a Christian home.
But was he truly a Christian?
In this episode of Christian or Not, we examine Mozart’s faith, his life, his famous Requiem, and the real story behind his beliefs. Did his faith inspire his art? Or was he pretending at a time when everyone was a Christian?
New episodes every two weeks.
Search “Christian or Not” for more episodes on Isaac Newton, John D. Rockefeller, Charlemagne, Sir Francis Drake, and other major names from history.
This show comes from Revived Studios, the team behind Revived Thoughts and Martyrs & Missionaries.
00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Christian or not is a production of Revive Studios.
00:22 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_01]: doesn't work out right away.
00:24 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So you look up some tutorials.
00:25 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_01]: You go on the internet and, you know, you get going a little bit, but now the algorithm has found out you play an instrument.
00:34 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So from now on, everything that's on your feed is just people playing that exact same instrument a lot better.
00:43 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's going to be kids a lot better than you.
00:48 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_01]: They're amazing.
00:49 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not anxiety kicks in.
00:51 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: You're discouraged.
00:53 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, why did I even do this?
00:54 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Why did I even pick up this instrument?
00:56 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_01]: This is useless.
00:57 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_01]: The world doesn't need me.
00:59 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I will never be that good.
01:03 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I had my self, I'm kind of talking from experience here, trying to pick up the guitar, I actually picked it up, tried it, and then let it just sit for a year, and then picked it up again because I was not sure I was ever going to learn anyway.
01:18 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know the feeling?
01:20 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Now try and ring that feeling with you as we go to like the year 1760, you know you're you're.
01:26 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing well in society like you're in there with the royalties.
01:30 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You get invited to the parties, you're doing well enough and you've learned to play the harpsichord, the hip and happening instrument of the time, you know, it's in all the composers, symphonies and you can play some of them and when you're at the party, you get to play some times, you know, and it's great and everybody's clapping and everybody loves it.
01:49 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're having a good time, playing your instrument.
01:52 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And then one day, you walk into one of these big ball rooms.
01:56 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a party, everyone's dressed up nice, dressed up fancy.
02:00 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And you hear someone's already playing the harpsichord.
02:04 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not your day, it's not your turn.
02:06 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So you look around like, who is it like, you know, probably someone way more handsome than me and a little bit more telling the probably older because he has had more time to learn.
02:15 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And you look over to the instruments where the people are gathered around and you see a four-year-old boy.
02:24 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_01]: that exact same feeling hits.
02:25 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And I bet there were a ton of harpsichord players in Salzburg in the 1760s running into this problem because there was a new kid in town and his name was Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and he was rocking the music scene from a very young age.
02:44 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So crazy, right, four years old,
02:48 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Mozart, Wunderkind, prodigy, genius, once in a millennium kind of kid.
02:53 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He wrote his first symphony at five, when we wrote, you know, at five, where we're trying to build Legos, probably, trying to get that tower that hit the ceiling.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: He was writing symphonies.
03:04 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_01]: His life is very interesting, also tragic.
03:07 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very short, yet, very prolific.
03:10 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He was born a Catholic and remained so throughout his life, but also joined to free maissance.
03:16 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So you've already got it, we have a lot of stuff to talk about today.
03:19 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to find out if one of the greatest composers of the modern era, Mozart was Christian or not.
03:34 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_00]: my name is Troy.
03:35 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Christian or not.
03:37 --> 03:41 [SPEAKER_00]: The goal of this show is to look at these historical figures, men like Mozart.
03:41 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We have looked at other men like John D. Rockefeller, or we're going to look at some other great future people as well, or maybe not so great future people.
03:49 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And ask a question.
03:51 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Are these people Christians or not?
03:53 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we, of course, we are Christians ourselves.
03:56 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_00]: We believe that only God knows the heart of man, but we also believe that we can look at the fruit of someone's life and we can ask the question, does that fruit show the life of a believer or not?
04:05 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't think that we have the perfect answer.
04:08 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And so at the end of every episode, we're going to ask you to vote, did we get it right?
04:11 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Were they a Christian?
04:12 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Were they not a Christian?
04:14 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We want to hear your answers as well, and we will read them on future episodes so that we can balance out our take with your take because we definitely don't know everything and you might have some great insights that you found or that you know or may disagree with us and we'll read some of those on the show so that we can get a good balance take to figure out if these people who have changed history and sometimes claim to be Christians, sometimes didn't really claim to be Christians but were they Christians or not?
04:38 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm excited for this week, and we actually talked about this in the last episode about Charlemagne, you mentioned like, hey, we started revised thoughts and it just ended up, you know, being much more church history, then you thought it was going to be, and the same with Marta's and missionaries that it was like a very uplifting show for people to just hear these stories.
04:58 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And with this one, we thought it was going to be a more history show and we ended up almost having like a theology.
05:03 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
05:08 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_00]: there are so many different podcasts that do theology, there are a handful or trickle of shows that are doing church history, most of them come in out of our studio, but there is really not actually like a lot of shows that talk about how do you live your life as a Christian applying it to every day, like there aren't a lot of shows where like here's what a business man does, here's what an artist does, here's what a general does, like that's just not something
05:29 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_00]: most people have that kind of experience with.
05:31 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But as we look at these people's lives and say, well, what would a general look like if they were a Christian?
05:37 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What would a composer look like if he was a great like?
05:40 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And as you apply that kind of question to these people, it helps us to reveal what is living for Christ look like in these kind of other positions at 95 to 99% of Christians throughout history.
05:50 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_00]: would have been in, you know, most Christians aren't pastors or famous missionaries, most of them are living their lives, working jobs, and so what does it mean to be a Christian in those kinds of positions?
06:01 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really enjoying this show.
06:03 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been super fun.
06:04 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me too.
06:04 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just trying to think like like what's the what's the score so far.
06:08 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We've done four episodes.
06:09 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: We started with Newton was not a Christian and fortunately, then we had.
06:16 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Help me out of your Rockefeller, of course, that you original is Christian it might be controversial, but you listen to the episode and tell me why because I got to be honest.
06:23 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I had our time.
06:25 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Hard time disproven that he was a Christian.
06:26 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Then we had Sir Francis Drake of course pirate private to why you might disagree it was it was a close call it was yeah so you said like a like Christian I was I was like
06:38 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But I really struggle with the violence and the murder and, you know, and, you know, and, you know, and those are hard questions and I accidentally hit a wrong button there, but that's okay because just leave it in there.
06:48 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm also doing this like with my left hand, I have like a switcher that I'm trying to coordinate who's talking.
06:54 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear how to make Mark AI and so to see if he doesn't have to do that kind of thing yet.
06:58 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So for now he's having to do it.
06:59 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
07:00 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was time.
07:01 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_01]: the people listening to this are just like what wrong about them.
07:03 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We noticed nothing in the people who are interested in the idea of notice the flip there.
07:07 --> 07:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah which by the way is super fun thing about Christiana Nazi.
07:09 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_00]: This is our first time doing a video show which has been cool just a very different element of doing these things but as we as our studio has grown in shows and stuff we're trying to get out there and do the things and everybody's got video podcasts they say so hi we get in there Mark and do it ourselves.
07:24 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We got to do it.
07:25 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_01]: We got to get in there, but we also got to get into the script.
07:27 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And now I got to say, Mark, I appreciate and there's a lot of great things that you bring to the show, but Well, I do appreciate the size of that that you can correctly pronounce all the names in Europe because I can't.
07:38 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But also that you know more about music that I do.
07:41 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I literally prepare for this episode.
07:43 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I was listening to music.
07:44 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'll listen to some Mozart.
07:46 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's probably the first time Mozart has brushed through my playlist in a while and it was lots of songs.
07:50 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I know that song for a dead song.
07:52 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That song was been in movies.
07:54 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that one.
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that one.
07:55 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, if you're like me and you're not like a super musically and tuned person, um, good news.
08:01 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You can totally listen this episode and learn a lot about Mozart because we don't go over how his sonatas change and stuff over time.
08:07 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not plugged in enough to music history or the via the scene to be able to explain his opera and how it's different than Beethoven's or anything like that.
08:15 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: to me.
08:16 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also not able to do it.
08:17 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just throw that right there.
08:21 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: My offer knowledge kind of begins and ends with the Linytunes thing where they were singing opera style.
08:25 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably the previous where I go.
08:27 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that is like most people are in generation.
08:29 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where we got our first introduction.
08:31 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, the Barber of Civil, like that one.
08:34 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it from Linytunes and there's others.
08:37 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I know just from Linytunes, but I got it.
08:40 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't really like from memories.
08:42 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a Mozart one and that's a Mozart one.
08:44 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But as I was researching, I had the same thing like realistic to some things like, oh, yeah, this one.
08:50 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I noticed when there was one I knew because that one's used a lot and you will like look it up.
08:54 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Lacrimosa that one's like, like whenever there's like a super dramatic someone has died in a movie or something that's the one.
09:01 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So so they're going to be people Googling that now and being like,
09:04 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know that's all and I will say too.
09:06 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been listening a lot of them in the past a couple days It's pretty good in music.
09:09 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_00]: No, he really did a good job.
09:11 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be the one the first to say that Might be making break in history here.
09:16 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we have you know Troy Frazier's stamp of approval.
09:19 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I make good news
09:23 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so too.
09:23 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he did a good job and he started early.
09:26 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so ready to dive into the script here with lines like that.
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We definitely have everybody in games.
09:31 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, I mean, you're already spoiled a little bit by telling him that his music is good.
09:35 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Now people are like, Oh, no, I know.
09:38 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
09:38 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, guys, it is Christian or not, but we did throw it at the opinion piece on his music.
09:42 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:43 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it is good music.
09:45 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's no way around and I think there's not a lot of people that are going to be in the comments like, no, it's junk.
09:50 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a disguise.
09:51 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I guess I did find out that Beethoven and Mozart is kind of like, they people argue over who was better.
09:57 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_00]: A little bit of like a Kobe and LeBron situation there.
10:03 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I personally feel like it's kind of an unfair battle because Mozart died 20 something years younger than Beethoven.
10:09 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like you have to cut all of Beethoven's music after 35 off before you can really have that.
10:14 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get started.
10:15 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Mozart was born in 1756 in Austria.
10:20 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting time to be an Austrian.
10:21 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Your Queen was the...
10:24 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Arch, help me out.
10:25 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where my name.
10:26 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Arch Dussery.
10:27 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Arch Dussery.
10:28 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also don't know.
10:28 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's an English size to where it's by.
10:31 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Something of Austria and the Queen of Hungary and Bohemia.
10:35 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Her daughter is the very famous Maria Antoinette, which actually would make it interesting episode of her own because I we've done a lot of this.
10:42 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: As a revised studio person and as a person who teaches history, I have done a lot of stuff with the French Revolution.
10:47 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Her whole her whole tragedy is very interesting.
10:51 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, um, who will she will be encouraged by her mother to marry the King of France or husband, uh, the husband of the Queen at the time is the, uh, the, it's over the Emperor, Holy Roman Emperor, and they ruled the Habsburg lands.
11:02 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, so this is a good time to be in Austria.
11:05 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is a power moment for them.
11:07 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and Austria was feeling a little bit of pushback from kind of a new player on the block that was really, I mean, they had been around a long time, but they were showing themselves pressure.
11:15 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: and they kind of went up against Prussia during the seven-year war, things didn't go perfectly.
11:20 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But overall, this is still a really good time, and that's probably why when they started putting these reforms that we see them doing, one of which was a big push from music, it kind of creates a very special time in Austria where it becomes the home and center of so much classical music.
11:36 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not to say, they're the only
11:39 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_00]: music placing town London and other in Berlin and there are other places, but it really is the home of classical music and a lot of our minds.
11:47 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_00]: With that said, they didn't call it classical music back then.
11:50 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: That would have just been, you know, this was just pop music.
11:52 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was the pop music of their era.
11:54 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, it was probably somewhat controversial to do with their doing.
11:56 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But when we think of classical music today, so many of the people we're thinking of, we're coming out of this part of the world, Austria, specifically Vienna.
12:04 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's partially because during this time they were putting the big push for education and music was playing a huge car society.
12:11 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know this, but in the 1700s, we not only have like all these different composers that were just a big deal to the world, Bach, Handel, the Valdi, and others were just this huge part of life back then, but also three of the emperors of this, you know, country in this time, Leah pulled the first dose of the first and Carl is six.
12:30 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_00]: were gifted musicians and loved to play music in their courts.
12:33 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So they would have 76 singers, tons of instrumentalists, officers, often learned to play music.
12:39 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of how you showed yourself as an aristocrat and made favor with the King and whatever was doing this kind of music thing, which I mean, you think about the world without any kind of Spotify, any kind of way of doing things.
12:50 --> 12:52 [SPEAKER_00]: People need to entertain themselves.
12:52 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have the luxury of free time and wealth to have your people play piano or play violin,
12:59 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: really does make sense that this would kind of be a part of what you do and that really was what it was.
13:04 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think and that was actually something you I learned researching this like a lot of these guys were just like employed by like the aristocrats like you were just working in the court court of this guy or this guy.
13:15 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And there were only a few that really broke out of that, like, uh, I listened to a podcast today where they talked about, uh, handle, uh, going to England because, of course, his most famous piece, the Messiah is all English and he wrote it when he was there.
13:29 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, I never figured out, like, I knew he was, I think, like, a German Austria, like,
13:34 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_01]: He has a German name, so I figured he's probably from that neck of the woods.
13:38 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I never realized how he ended up in England.
13:41 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was also because he actually sort of got out of that, because, for example, Yohn Sba Sienbach, who was the...
13:50 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_01]: like one of the famous one earlier in the 17th or 18th century died I think like six, seven years before Mozart was born.
13:58 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He was always employed and he was even at one point because he tried to sort of get out of his contract put in jail.
14:05 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like that's crazy.
14:06 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you know I'm made enough music, get in jail with you.
14:08 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's that's crazy.
14:10 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So and like what you just said, like, yeah, we're so used to music being accessible to us, like 24, seven, like we just have our phones, we have our laptops devices, everything, like, you know, we even like the equipment we have here, like like a microphone, like this, like we have the ability to even make our own music, that was not the case back then.
14:30 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to like, you know, that bedtime music, you know, laying in bed, you got to have your own guys standing in your bedroom,
14:38 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you wanted to show off for your friends, you don't have that you're not going to invite everybody over for a movie night.
14:42 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to say, I have enough money to hire a performance that's going to be at my manner.
14:47 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have some really good violins in piano and oh, and oh, your son is wanting to show off to some of the ladies, well, have him play a little bit.
14:54 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a whole scene that is just completely gone.
14:58 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, in today's world musicians are almost considered like Bums, in a sense.
15:02 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And a little bit that was still true then, like before you made it big, you were a little bit of a Bum.
15:08 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And then eventually, you could become a rock star.
15:09 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: When we look at these great composers like Beethoven or Mozart, we are seeing the rock stars that survived the scene.
15:16 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not seeing hundreds and thousands that were fighting across little courts just trying to make a living.
15:22 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the reason why Vienna and Austria became such a powerhouse was all a Germany was full of these little Princeton's that were running out of money.
15:30 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: All of these little Princeton's had their little musicians.
15:33 --> 15:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And as they ran on a money, they'd have to cut, you know, the salary of these guys said in some of them packing.
15:37 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they kind of all flooded into Vienna from all directions.
15:41 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when the French Revolution hit to a lot of the French musicians that could escape in Wittdo.
15:45 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So it just, it's in a lot of the Italians also in that it was just like all of the right people were coming to the right place at the right time to make Vienna have this kind of musical moment that I really, I'm sure there are some repeatable things like I guess any
16:01 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But even with as much as jazz as known around the world, I don't think that this Vienna scene quite has ever been fully maybe Hollywood with movies and music is probably the next big version of this thing.
16:13 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't there the other, I'm just, I don't know, it's been a long day and now it's just not pumping up, but there's another place like in America that's like very famous, like it's where Johnny Cash and Elf is in the middle of the show.
16:23 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Nashville, of course, just Nashville in the middle of a smaller version of that as well.
16:26 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that Nashville maybe has, I don't know.
16:29 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Vanna's music scene is so big that 300 years later we're still talking about it.
16:33 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I will be curious if we're still going to be talking about the Taylor Swiss and people that came out of
16:37 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_00]: National Tennessee, but yeah, you're right, National would probably be another one of those kind of huge just everyone if you're going to make it in music, you're heading that direction to try to make it in break it kind of place.
16:47 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so that's where Mozart and them are going to end up heading in this is the world that Mozart's being kind of born into and even following after him Beethoven big name he will actually go to Vienna make an attempt to meet Mozart he'll.
17:01 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll literally have kind of a meeting set up with him and then his mom will get sick.
17:04 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_00]: He'll go back home and then he'll move back to Vienna at the same.
17:08 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be right after Mozart died.
17:09 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like it's totally, but this is giving you the idea of just like how many of these people cross over with each other and they knew each other, they were aware of each other's work.
17:17 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And in fact, when they were creating their own music, they're kind of trying to one up each other because they're like, oh, I saw that he did this thing with some flute.
17:23 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to do these things with like, they're all playing off each other, creating this big
17:31 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, kind of back to Mozart, so he's born in 1756 here.
17:35 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: His dad, Leopold, was a musician as well, and he wrote an important manual on how to play the violin that came out the same year that Mozart was born, and it was a pretty big deal kind of helped him get his flash onto the scene.
17:47 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the happiest family life per se out of seven children, Mozart and his sister are the only two that survived to adulthood.
17:54 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess saying not the
18:00 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_01]: as well and even going through like Mozart and sorry spoiler alert is not going to live like to a ripe old age, a lot of people are dying like in their 30s, 40s, 50s.
18:09 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a lot of these competitors, we mentioned Beethoven.
18:11 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_00]: He only lives, I believe, to be 56.
18:13 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I don't, that's not a very long time.
18:16 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to think of like, I,
18:18 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
18:19 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_00]: With my head, I just thought, you know, these are great musicians.
18:21 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They probably would do a long time.
18:22 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe just, is it that life expectancy was so short or was the stress of making music in this kind of world so stressful for them that took him out early?
18:31 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think the life expectancy was a very real thing because I think Mozart himself had a couple of kids as well, but I think only to survive.
18:40 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think
18:41 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like sometimes we kind of forget because we see like you know the movies about like the ballrooms and everybody's happy and everything So pretty and everything's amazing But like medicine wasn't as developed like wasn't it just in the other episode of Isaac Newton where even like a guy like Newton himself like like
18:59 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_01]: a little like a hundred years before this, maybe give or take 16 somethings was like still making playcures and things like that.
19:07 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So like we're only a hundred years after that.
19:10 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And now like one of the smartest guys in the world at the time.
19:12 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're not wrong.
19:14 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It's still to me.
19:14 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just crazy to think that like these guys are dying off in their 30s and 50s.
19:18 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just feels.
19:20 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It just feels wild.
19:21 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
19:21 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very early on in his life.
19:22 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a prodigy in music.
19:24 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_00]: By three, he was able to pick out chords on the Harper's Court for.
19:27 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He was playing short pieces at the party that you may have been at earlier inside.
19:31 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He was already composing his own music, which, I mean, I mean, look, Mark, when will you, how old are you when you compose your first piece?
19:40 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, let me say the clock still running on that one.
19:43 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like, I've, I've, and I wrote my first song or do you mean when I had like a whole symphony ready because for me is obviously neither of them have been done and yeah, because we're, we're not talking like, oh, he can do like his own little four note kind of thing.
19:57 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so cute.
19:58 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're talking like an actual like multi instrument piece, I think here.
20:03 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's, that's kind of crazy right now.
20:05 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Like an insult to my children.
20:07 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I love them dearly, but I don't think either of them are ready to compose a symphony.
20:12 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, that's a bad parenting.
20:15 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be honest, I think like we got to give him credit for being a child prodigy.
20:22 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The kids you see on YouTube, there's a three-year-old playing the violin in ways that's so crazy.
20:29 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: There is something special about these kids.
20:31 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not average.
20:33 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And we say the word one in a million, but I mean, I think in Mozart's case, one in 100 million.
20:37 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is just very, everything line that, and not only did everything line up for him to be.
20:43 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_00]: He clearly was a very talented person, but he also, everything line up for him to have a family that could actually help him.
20:49 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And he happened to be in the right musical cities where those scenes could all take off.
20:52 --> 20:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was really truly golden spin and patent.
20:54 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean that his life was easy.
20:56 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he had a pretty tough life actually.
20:58 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but it just meant like this was all lined up in the perfect ways for him to be what he was.
21:02 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Leopold saw him as a, most are as a miracle of God quote, the miracle, which God let be born in Salzburg is how he referred to him and he saw his gift of music so unbelievably ahead of his time and so incredibly good at music that he felt like he would be a bad dad if he didn't do everything he could to get Mozart to write us to the highest level.
21:22 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you see that
21:24 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Three, four, and five, it's composing music and doing stuff.
21:27 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to do everything you can to get into a highest talent.
21:31 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of what he sees as mission.
21:33 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Like my mission from God, and this is his words from God, is to get him out into the world.
21:38 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, as a he's for any is pretty successful, all kinds of anecdotes about him as a young child, it is a little bit difficult to know which ones are true, especially because some of them come, you know, many decades after the fact like, oh, he could hear a song and immediately new pitch, like, he probably could do some of these and that one's actually quite reasonable.
21:56 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of people around.
21:57 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: How old does he when he was able to actually put all that together, though, like, what age was he?
22:02 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, able to just like look at an instrument and learn it.
22:04 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the some of the stories I was like, I just I can't know there was one story.
22:07 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a little bit later and our notes where he like was brought to and this was again he's a by teenager not early 20s when this happened, but he was brought to Rome where he heard like this special like Catholic.
22:18 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_00]: song that was like a special secret song just for like secret audiences but he left and he literally was able to just from memory write it all out and on piece of music and kind of let the secret out of the bag not because they shared it but this because like he knew it and could do that which I mean
22:33 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_00]: what do you do in a guy like that comes through and knows your secret right he didn't it's something bad this is like he can memorize music that quickly just thinking of like you know you can't bring a movie camera into the cinema kind of thing and then then Mozart shows up and he's just like he has his own it just memorize it he can create a shot for shot like you know you show him like oh here's this you know amazing painting by Picasso or some you know great I don't Picasso actually doesn't that much
22:56 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really great artist.
22:57 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a really shim brand, man.
22:59 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And suddenly he just goes home and like, oh, like this, and then copies the whole thing and shows it back to you.
23:04 --> 23:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what he does to it.
23:05 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how mad can he be at him for that?
23:07 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's that one seems to have been true.
23:09 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the level of prodigy we're talking about here.
23:12 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he will as a young as a young and I'm talking like six, seven, eight, nine years old.
23:16 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_00]: His dad will take him on a tour through Europe.
23:18 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll go to Munich, they'll go to Augsburg, Stuttgart, Manheim, Mons, Mons, Mons, Mons.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you read in this part?
23:24 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Frank for real.
23:25 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You're the greatest.
23:26 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that one.
23:27 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it's probably Paris, isn't it?
23:28 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
23:30 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing great.
23:30 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep going.
23:31 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep going.
23:31 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep going, don.
23:32 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, is that one close?
23:33 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, London.
23:34 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, hey, Amsterdam, Paris again, Lyon and Switzerland.
23:39 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: That one, that one, I'm going to correct you because everyone's too far.
23:42 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Lyon.
23:42 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Lyon.
23:43 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Lyon.
23:44 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot of deep diers to do some apologies for some for Levi's thoughts because Lyon comes on a lot and we don't, sorry, Knights Templar episodes.
23:52 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We, it was all Lyon for me on that one.
23:54 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, and then he gets back.
23:56 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is like over the course of him being a young man.
23:59 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I get a young man.
23:59 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a boy at this point.
24:00 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Mozart has sister playing through at eight years old.
24:03 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_00]: He had become well enough to know like the Bach family.
24:07 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Not actually.
24:09 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You said Johannes Sebastian Bach.
24:10 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Sebastian was like the father son.
24:13 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And his son helped him get his first piece of music published at eight.
24:18 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's your soul pretty impressively done, you know, I mean, he's well on his way and now by the time he's his teenage years, he's just traveling and it's very clear he's on his way to becoming that guy in music.
24:32 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and this is actually where he gets a little bit, I would say a little bit awkward for Mozart and his dad, especially because his dad, I mean, I've read from different sources who had another podcast as well.
24:47 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he was,
24:49 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: he was a good business guy like he was doing this like he was in it for the money as well like of course he wanted the world to see Mozart he wanted to share the music but he was also not minding you know getting paid for these things getting nice meals and the different courts that they went to
25:06 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And that works if you have a child prodigy, but once you get like in the 13, 14, 15 kind of area, you know, to see and get a little bit busier, there's a little bit more kids that we're able to just buy hard work learn their instruments as well, and they're catching up to Mozart in certain ways, like like a novelty kind of wears off a little bit here.
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And, um,
25:26 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And it gets a little bit harder for them to actually make some money off of it.
25:31 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And they have to go into like employment again for a little bit.
25:34 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So they've been touring kind of like freelancing, going through Europe, all the cities and by now they're back and they want to get back into it.
25:42 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_01]: But there is actually an interesting thing here.
25:44 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_01]: What happens because
25:47 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_01]: the leopold the father he's really like banking on the imperial court like he's hoping like by now the emperor knows but they actually kind of reject him because of the whole tour they're like oh you're just you know selling out basically like you're you're just selling out and you're just you know you're you're not respecting us and you're not respecting you know the the empire so they basically were like we're gonna make a name for ourselves going all the shows everyone will know us and they're like oh you're just in it for the money and the fame you're
26:17 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like that kind of like no, but but I don't know a little bit, well, maybe a little bit snobbish like, you know, but but we're the actual like, but this is the real music and the real art and not like the popular stuff.
26:28 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You see on YouTube kind of deal.
26:30 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, I get all my music from this super obscure website and a deep dark corners.
26:35 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_01]: The internet where a guy plays, you know, his loot from 17 something.
26:39 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like those kind of people, maybe.
26:41 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that guy too.
26:41 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_00]: He's pretty good.
26:43 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a new, he's got a new album coming up.
26:45 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, so you can relate to the emperor.
26:50 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so there is a little bit of a dry spell here, like any story like in the script, even like it just jumps ahead a little bit.
26:57 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And it gets complicated because Mozart, of course, growing up gets interested in other things than music like from a tree he's been doing music and now he's like a teenager he goes out he opens his eyes is like hey.
27:11 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_01]: There's other things named the girls and women, and he actually meets a family in Manheim, and he falls in love with the oldest sister or one of the sister called Aloysus.
27:25 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is.
27:26 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
27:26 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I don't actually know how to pronounce this one.
27:31 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I won't know.
27:31 --> 27:33 [SPEAKER_01]: How would you say that in English?
27:33 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Aloysus?
27:34 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Aloysus?
27:35 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like Aloysia.
27:36 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just call her Aloysia for now.
27:41 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure she, yeah, no, we're okay with that, uh, Elvis, let's go with that one.
27:46 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but his dad doesn't want, but at this time he's with his mom trevin with his mom, dad's out there, but dad hears it sends it like a very firm love like a, this is not happening.
27:56 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Focus on the music.
27:57 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So they go to Paris and in Paris, they try to focus on the music, but Mozart is not having a great time.
28:02 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: If I recall correctly, the dad is the one that sends in the Paris,
28:06 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_00]: and I don't know if he's heard the reputation of France and like Paris being the city of love, but if you're trying to get him to not focus on the girl, that might not have been the best place to send him.
28:14 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That is true, but we're talking about like 1780s Paris here.
28:18 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's not nearly as romantic.
28:20 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say we're 10 years away from the revolution.
28:23 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's not a good time for them that.
28:26 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe listen to podcast.
28:27 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've heard a good podcast about this.
28:29 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Travel, yeah, I went on the way to find that.
28:33 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's uh, so I don't know how Paris was at least we know from the sources that Mozart wasn't loving it and he was loving it even less when his mother got sick and died while they were in Paris and that is just incredibly sad.
28:53 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was kind of a bummer.
28:54 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: All of this brothers and sisters die.
28:56 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He had a first rough day.
28:57 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_00]: His mom died.
28:59 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't mean it's just we didn't know that it's so far removed from us.
29:02 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're not quite hit by the emotions of it, but we do.
29:05 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It would have obviously been a pretty bad day when his mom died.
29:07 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
29:08 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my apologies as well.
29:09 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like we don't want to make light of it or anything.
29:12 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It is terrible when when someone dies so close to you, but It just happens a lot in these stories like the stories we've done so far.
29:20 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's always like and then this person died and then this person died and it's just It is part of I don't want to say it's part of being a genius having people around you die, but it's part of making music that captures the emotions of people forever
29:32 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe part of that's going to come from people who have really experienced some true loss and some true emotions that touch deeper than maybe a person who's you know how to pretty easy I'm not saying that I think we understand what I'm saying here part of the reason Mozart maybe was able to express that music so very well was because he had quite a few tragedies here again brothers and sisters dying mother dying he's been through some stuff.
29:52 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
29:53 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:54 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And this one actually this this moment actually for the first time in our story here for Christian or not gives us some insight into his fate because he wrote a letter back to his family that we're going to discuss later.
30:06 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So keep keep tuned in for that.
30:09 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: One of our probably biggest insights into what I think his religion and his views were
30:14 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_00]: is I think in this letter that we'll check out here in a little while, but yeah, so that it I'm not saying I'm grateful for it.
30:20 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying this was one of all the things we found.
30:23 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, this gives me a lot of insight into what he, how we've got the world.
30:26 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
30:27 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So, he, from Paris, he is, you know, he's grieving.
30:33 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not feeling great.
30:34 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he goes back to Manheim, trying to find the love of his life again, allowises of allowises, or however we want to pronounce it, and finds out she is married.
30:48 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So Mozart is not having a great time here and he goes back home, he goes back home to his fatherly uphold and he is back in Salzburg where he was born and finally he sort of gets gets a break Vienna now really notices him.
31:05 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So he gets an invite to Vienna, he gets asked by the Archbishop of Vienna to
31:12 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_01]: be a part of the ascension of Joseph II, who's going to be the new emperor, not a great emperor when it comes to diplomacy, but when it comes to music, education, artistic reforms, he's your guy.
31:25 --> 31:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's great for Mozart.
31:27 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's now finally making it onto the scene in Vienna.
31:31 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And to his own surprise, and to his luck actually, we find out that someone else is now also in Vienna and coming on the trip with him to Italy and all these things, and that is someone from the same family as Aloises before, and that is Constancia, and they get involved.
31:53 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little awkward.
31:54 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm not trying to judge Mozart's, you know, dating life, but he liked the one sister she was married and now the other sister shows up.
32:00 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, you know, hey, I guess it's good enough.
32:03 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but one thing that was nice about this family is they were actually, I remember earlier in his life.
32:07 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: They were going to go on a trip to Italy.
32:09 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_00]: together is like a traveling family because they all did music together.
32:13 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was when it's dad and sent him kind of in the other direction, the Paris.
32:16 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was my loss of the girls.
32:18 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know how many women there are clearly he's got, he really likes doing music with this family and you know him and that's one are going to hit it all pretty
32:28 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so so this is all happening kind of in the same time.
32:31 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And but actually I kind of skipped over a party that's actually quite important because it didn't start out great for him in Vienna at first actually he just sort of becomes a servant to the Archbishop and he.
32:44 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of gets denied making music like they just don't want him to to make music at one point the emperor is at a performance sees Mozart there knows who he is and said that he would actually pay money to Mozart to see him but it he isn't allowed like the archbishop sort of blocks him is like no we're not he's not allowed to play
33:05 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And there was probably some church politics at work here like there were maybe the archbishop had used some words that weren't really, you know, church like and Mozart had said something and spoken up, at least there was something off here that didn't work in Mozart's favor.
33:22 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It really hurt both our two because he wasn't particularly wealthy at this point.
33:25 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a famous household name yet and it was said that like performing just this one performance night with I'm not sure if it was like with a group of people or just him playing or whatever the situation was it would have been worth half of a year salary.
33:38 --> 33:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean this would have been really helpful for him to get denied being allowed to play this or by the Archbishop really hurt him.
33:46 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is not like, I mean kind of Vienna play music.
33:49 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_00]: you finally get invited to the big city to the Nashville or whatever it is.
33:52 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And no one's letting in the guy you're living with is not not only not letting you pay, but he's basically treating you like one of the cooks in his house.
34:00 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a very, both humbling, but also probably very frustrating experience for Mozart.
34:05 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely, but he makes a bold move, and he is able to get out of this employment, and he goes freelance, which was like we discussed before, kind of a big deal, back in these days, like most people worked like for an aristocrat, but he decides, no, I'm going to be on my own, and that means like, you know, no steady income, nothing, if you don't play,
34:30 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, no pay, no play, no pay, I don't know if that's the saying within the music world, but it was for Mozart, and he, but he does pretty well like he's now out of it and this also gives him the opportunity to marry Constancia and they get married, but one person is not happy and that is Leo pulled his father and we know this because there is like quite some some communication, some letters back and forth about this that he did not approve and this rift never really yield.
35:00 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We will never find out exactly what the letters were because his wife, a Mozart's wife, destroys some of the communications.
35:09 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And I will say the version of Mozart we get is a little bit manicured by the wife.
35:13 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So if they were like, you know, if they ever had a fight, you're, she deleted it, you know what I mean?
35:18 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she kept those things out of going to the spotlight.
35:20 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I can see why I probably wouldn't want the whole world studying my spouse to know every time I messed up or something like that as well.
35:28 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But she does, like there's a couple of different times where I was reading it was just like, oh, but Constance, I got rid of that information.
35:33 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll never know what happened there 100%.
35:35 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Which also, you know, does lead to the question, just a hair too.
35:38 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what do we do have?
35:40 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it all, you know, 100% legit as well?
35:42 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Because she did kind of, you know, your husband dies at 35.
35:47 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone wants to tell his story.
35:49 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You need, you know, I'm not going to say like you used him.
36:04 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_00]: and so little details like what exactly was said in those communications was lost.
36:10 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they weren't positive communication.
36:12 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it never really worked out again and also with his sister, unfortunately, you know, so basically the band broke up, you know, they were touring Europe, in the verse, we're still little by now Mozart is on his own, but still writing absolute master pieces.
36:27 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And he is he is during really good.
36:30 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There's even one story how he wrote an opera or a symphony actually like sort of on one visit.
36:37 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So he is visiting a city called Lins and he puts together a symphony just for the people that he's visiting.
36:43 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He performs it as well.
36:45 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just it's just crazy.
36:46 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_01]: This one's actually you can find this one.
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't put the name in the script, but
36:50 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I look up the story.
36:51 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Two Lines Mozart, I did, and it sounded very nice, and I was like, oh, that's good and he's like, and he, he, those people of Lines, but I probably really enjoyed that performance.
36:59 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he's doing great.
37:01 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_01]: He goes back to Vienna, and he tries to get into the scene again, but it's hard, because you know, there's a lot of musicians, and he's no longer like in the employment of someone there.
37:14 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So he really has to work his way in, and so,
37:18 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_01]: This goes up and down a little bit and also in his financial situation, you see, like, he really wants to live the high life.
37:25 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He wants to have like the nice apartment and the servants and he does for certain periods and then he just goes in debt for certain periods.
37:32 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's he's really going up and down with his finances.
37:36 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So also in this time, it's really not always going great.
37:41 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a his dad at at at least I read that his dad had passed on and saying like when you're quote, be a loof among musicians that is like don't hang out with them and then like in parentheses like an Englishman So I don't know if like British people were kind of known for being a loofback then but that's apparently how he said it was like be a loof like an Englishman among musicians
38:01 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_00]: and be friendly with the aristocracy.
38:03 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So like while you're doing music and concerts, don't go spend all your time hanging out talking to the violinists and the cellos, like stay away from those guys.
38:10 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going anywhere.
38:11 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Go and spend all your time hobnobbing with the rich and the aristocrats and those people, those guys kind of control your future.
38:17 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's very...
38:18 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Business network he smart and honestly, you know what, as much as Mozart was a child prodigy, him getting in good with all these elite people that paid him money to make something these or whatnot, probably as part of the reason we know more of the reason we know his name today than if he knew in the guys who played the trumpet, he'd fairly well.
38:34 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at the same time though, if you're always going to big fancy dinners with aristocrats, you're always wearing the latest clothes, you're always playing, um, what's that game with the horses and the chase around cricket or something like that?
38:45 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
38:46 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Did they play that back then?
38:47 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
38:47 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
38:48 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they had some horse games.
38:49 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Hunting boxes.
38:51 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: All the things that the rich aristocrats are doing, but you're a poor person.
38:54 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not a poor person, but you're not.
38:56 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not there.
38:56 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have family wealth in the mansion to fall back on.
38:59 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you're going to run out of money fast, keeping up with, you know, keeping up with the Jones is kind of what we say today, but like keeping up with the aristocrats when you're not when you run out of money.
39:09 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the flip side of it.
39:10 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We know him because he got made those connections out.
39:13 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So if I him, but also him doing all of that, you, he wasn't one of them.
39:19 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it hurt him a lot to keep that going.
39:23 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does, and there is one thing that actually helps him, and it brings us to a very interesting part of the story, because he makes some new friends, one of them, for example, Joseph Hayden, who's also famous composer of the time, and some others around him, they are free maisons, and I had to do quite a bit of research on this one, for some reason, I didn't know a lot about free maisons, I just, I don't know why.
39:52 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
39:52 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't know about the three ones.
39:54 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I know a little bit because I with I basically remember this like I think on the drive over.
40:00 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I remember like reading a book like I think it's in Warren piece like one of the main characters at one point gets involved with the free mason's.
40:08 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm about to nerd out with the America.
40:09 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not remember that at all in the in the more in peace, but I love that book super great book.
40:15 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so fun and that book does have so many moments.
40:18 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it wouldn't surprise me if you do one of them join the family.
40:21 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty I'm like 90% sharing it when I go back and check on that because that would be such a funny thing to miss the
40:26 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So I forgot the name so that's really bad, but I'm so now I'm going to really, you know, make some very, you know, get people in the comments, but I know that in the BBC series where in PC is played by I think guy called Paul day know.
40:42 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why I remember like that's the face I'm seeing here like it's deaf character like he's like the awkward one like he's in like Patre or something like that could actually be that one.
40:51 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:51 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, could be like a way we actually have laptops.
40:53 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: We can Google this.
40:55 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So at least it's that guy and I think at one point like he just meets a guy and he goes here Pierre.
41:01 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, good one.
41:01 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he's a guy at the in her it's like a lot of money.
41:04 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like the alleged illegitimate son of someone and
41:08 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, he gets involved with Freemasons.
41:10 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_00]: That was my knowledge and now Mozart is involved with the Freemasons I'm gonna give my Freemasons knowledge as a grand Duke level seven No, as somebody who drives past places in America and they'll have like Masonic logic lane or something that's like I didn't know if they were in the Nettos, but I'd never See that's why I was so surprised when we were doing research in my mind
41:30 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Free Masons are kind of like these, I don't know, sorry if you're a free Masons here.
41:34 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say, but you guys weird people who we kind of make fun of in pop culture as like kind of like a weird cult kind of thing that they do.
41:41 --> 41:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and then I've done a lot of remasin research for if I thought it's because occasionally there's a free Mason like I'll find a like a preacher who is claimed to be a free Mason that I don't put them on because I'd find that I'm not just not confident enough and what they're doing to have them on at all.
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have no thanks.
41:57 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we could buy better pastors to feature and revive thoughts in that and then the three Masons came up a lot with the night's Templar because they borrowed a lot of night's Templar imagery and symbolism in their own movement But like I really can't tell you what so I was surprised.
42:11 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I didn't know they were all over Austria Like in my mind they're just like this weird group that hung around in America at times But they seem to be everywhere actually like they seem to have actually been he really big deal in Europe across the continent
42:25 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, look at the French Revolution.
42:27 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some definite free-mason influences there, which I learned because I know it in French because I have to study it in school like Egalite, no.
42:40 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Come on, leave it to Eglitae for that thing today.
42:42 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's freedom, equality, equality, and brotherhood.
42:47 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's like the three, like the three, I don't know, so creeds of the French Revolution.
42:53 --> 42:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is actually very free Mason.
42:55 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I found out today researching this.
42:57 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I think before we go too much, drift into the conspiracies and all those things.
43:03 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're not going to go like, we're not this is not that we're going to say like,
43:06 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_00]: For famous Americans that also found that about George Washington, our beer, John Hancock, and Benjamin Franklin, all remacens.
43:14 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, 15 of the United States presidents were remacens in the span.
43:18 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Over hundreds of years, like it was some as recent as Lyndon B. Johnson.
43:22 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_00]: FDR, Andrew Jackson, I mean, El Cross of Fear.
43:25 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That's 15 of them, and that's out of 47 or so, and some of them are repeating, and that the other 40 are aluminum bodies.
43:32 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, that really doesn't leave a lot of presidents left over, but no, I, I will say, like the Freemasons were an absolutely influential group.
43:41 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
43:42 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's just that we're doing fast on it.
43:45 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's throwaway coming.
43:46 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's just got to be good.
43:47 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say like so how, okay, what were these people about that made them so influential?
43:52 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you are a free Mason, does that automatically completely bar you from being able to be a Christian?
43:58 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Like is it that kind of a cult?
43:59 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Because let's be honest, if I said they were Mormon, we would all go, well, that's not a Christian because of what Mormons believe.
44:05 --> 44:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Are free Mason's in the same category that where if you believe that you are autonomically out?
44:10 --> 44:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they seem to be very popular because of their, it's at this time in the 7000, which by the way, is also important to 1700's free masonry.
44:17 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Why they are important then?
44:19 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't necessarily think is probably the same as what we have now.
44:23 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I would, I'm sure the free mason's would say like, oh, we're a part of a long history or whatever.
44:27 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think if you join the free mason's today, it's probably for very different reasons that if you joined it 300 years ago.
44:33 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: where every famous composer and famous politician and every, I almost everybody that was in the, in the, know, was a free mason back then.
44:41 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, on the outside of the free mason say they are about these in lightning ideas, what you were saying about fraternity equality, all these guys, they really, and they really saw themselves as kind of a part of the Enlightenment.
44:52 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They were reason people building what they believe on like these ideas.
44:56 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like in mason builds a building brick by brick, we should build our thoughts and ideas thought by thought logically holding them all together.
45:05 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and they, at least at the time, Masons would not have seen it as exclusively against Christianity.
45:11 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the many of them would have said that we are actually helping to build Christianity by working on the basis that Christianity gives us.
45:17 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where an outpouring of that.
45:19 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And some very famous people from the Habsburg families were big supporters of it.
45:23 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Joseph, the second, the emperor of Austria during that time.
45:26 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_00]: His dad was a free Mason, and although he wasn't the free Mason, he saw them as friends.
45:30 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he saw them as big supporters that he could count on.
45:33 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_00]: and during the time when the Catholic church was very powerful, it was actually kind of helpful to have this other group in his mind that could kind of back him out of corners when the Catholics were maybe upset with him, but not giving enough homage to maybe Mary or something.
45:46 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The three masones could kind of back him up and you know, not get him so much in so a trouble and hot water.
45:51 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And he put this in his music.
45:54 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Mozart.
45:55 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_00]: This wasn't happening, not just Mozart, but a lot of them were, but this wasn't just happening in a vacuum.
46:00 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the examples of that is his opera symphony the magic flute one of his most famous plays I remember reading the book the magic flute to my kids like when they were youngers is a book that we like found in a bookstore He includes a lot of symbolism from the Mason's with this they were
46:16 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_00]: there's these this number three comes up a bunch of them at the main character will meet who goes through three trials he'll meet three spirits there's three temples or three leads all these things they have a trial by fire water and air that this guy goes through which it's supposed to be something that the mason said at the time
46:31 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and he he gets through all these situations by playing music, it kind of is what brings harmony and calm through these different trials, which again to me, that's just like all that's a fun story of how, you know, music can be helpful or whatever, but to the mason's at that time, it was very much seen as a.
46:47 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_00]: music is a harmonizer it brings order to a world of chaos it again brick by brick or in their case note by note can take the chaos and bring about harmony and he also included secret of priests in like the play that if you were a Mason kind of watching you knew those guys represented you
47:04 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_00]: but the general public at the time maybe wasn't kind of on the up and up.
47:08 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So just some interesting things.
47:09 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_00]: One more story I have and then I wanted to hear your kind of wrapping up thoughts on them.
47:13 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was also a scene of like, as a way to move up socially.
47:16 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a story of an African servant, kind of the Anna, and servant.
47:21 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't read that he was a slave, so I was under the impression it said servant.
47:25 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but he gets to Vienna, you know, that's a pretty low total pull to be, but he joins with the Masons, and he moves his way up, eventually he's considered a scholar and a grant, law, a grant master.
47:35 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if you were poor, if you're a merchant, if you're somebody who's not an aristocrat, you're a way to kind of move up in society a lot of times was to join up with the Masons, either in London, Berlin, Amsterdam, Vienna, wherever you were, and kind of there you had a chance to play on more equal footing than you did in anywhere else in society.
47:53 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's what I read as well about the Masons and then I'm just sitting here wondering and like I don't think we need to go too far off of Mozart here, but then what's up with all the conspiracy theories like where does it come from like why is it and it's because they're very secretive like.
48:10 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's like a secret club basically that you become a part of.
48:14 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I was thinking about this because I was researching this and listening to another podcast about it as well.
48:20 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And they were very kind of positive like, hey, these are just, you know, good world changers.
48:24 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_01]: They basically only did good things except for maybe like one or two like local incidents.
48:30 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And but what
48:32 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking what the difference is because they were likening it to like you know what you also have your football club and you have your cricket club and you're everything like there's a lot of like just broader who kind of things and you have your like like in in the states like fraternities are very big like on the universities and all those things if I see the movies at least I assume those are very very correct.
48:53 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean according to the movies that's a big deal that we had those fraternities.
48:56 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean I went to a pretty small
48:58 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Bible college, but we created like our own version of that on the school of brotherhood of us.
49:03 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So like that that was it is a part of like I think especially younger people are going to have that like let's get the guys together and do something together.
49:10 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So but I think where it gets different is when those are like.
49:15 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_01]: a bunch of powerful guys like when it's all like yeah influence you guys and I think like I'm not saying here there is a conspiracy but I just very well understand why there are conspiracies and why there is that shroud of mystery because this is not just a bunch of guys hanging out shooting beer cans and someone back here like these are people like running countries influencing things and that is I think where they get some of the stories find
49:39 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: to be fair.
49:40 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Conspiracies are real sometimes.
49:41 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, sometimes these groups of people get together because they are actually up to no good and sometimes we do see throughout history.
49:48 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I think one big conspiracy where a friend of Jesus went and secretly met with some priests.
49:53 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that got some big problems, right?
49:55 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we do know that sometimes people get together in shady rooms and do bad things and
49:59 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_00]: we do know that sometimes the people these rich and famous people meeting behind closed doors aren't just meeting for fraternity or whatever I'm sure some of those meetings were also hey we're going to start a war in this place and grab the money or we're going to do these negative things as well and so how much of it and and then also free mason themselves don't help themselves if they are such a cool children but people why don't they just release all the information from talk the bottom about their lives and they don't they're like oh sorry this
50:28 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Well that doesn't make me think the things about what you're doing.
50:32 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to not tell me what happens up to a certain point, then I assume pass that point.
50:36 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Something sketchy and scary is happening.
50:38 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_00]: We are not experts on free masons.
50:40 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_00]: There are other podcasts that will tell you all about the free masons.
50:43 --> 50:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not our job and I don't want to become the show that judges, you know, maybe that's certainly cults as much.
50:50 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_00]: But we do need we did have to talk about that's what a part of his story and it was a part of the scene at the end of the time and it was part of the scene
50:58 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And to Mozart it was very important like you can see it like he's writing music for it and he's really involved like he gets pretty high up in the ranks Pretty quickly and yeah, so he's he's involved and and the interesting thing was I was reading about this as well from the Catholic perspective because they They wrote like hey did you know Mozart was a Catholic and he wrote a lot of church music and you know great Catholic guy oh yeah he was also a free free Mason but back then that didn't matter as much like there wasn't that big riff that there is now between the church and the free Mason's
51:28 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of found that was not entirely true.
51:30 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the Catholics did not like the free mason's pretty quickly.
51:33 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It really feels to me and I could be wrong.
51:36 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm not living at the time.
51:37 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done the research on the free mason's.
51:39 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But it really feels like a competing religion.
51:41 --> 51:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the way they're interacting.
51:42 --> 51:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
51:42 --> 51:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's competing with the Catholic Church in these places.
51:46 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: For as its own religion and I could certainly see, it seems to me like the Catholics took it as, hey, this is a competing religion against us.
51:54 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it also seems like this almost an enlightenment religion where it's like we're gonna take the ideas of enlightened it Create almost like a pretend club religion thing out of it It and that's not great.
52:04 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that is the case and that's seriously that is to me because very concerning aspect of this way
52:10 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what you're saying right now, that's actually very true.
52:12 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I was listening to a podcast talking about the Freemasons, all these things, and how it came from this enlightenment area, where era where you kind of lose this, this, this, you know, broader root of the church as well, because you know, at least I know from the church that we're part of here, like it's really a community, like those are your friends, those are the people you share the good and the bad with.
52:33 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And it just feels to me like like in this like sort of enlightenment era, these guys were like losing that and they still wanted it, so they just basically came up with like sort of the same thing, but then with different different things like their own little rituals, their own ranks, their own things.
52:50 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, I don't know that they would agree and I'm sure some free racism would say this is not true, but it feels like they tried to do.
52:56 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Christianity but pull Jesus out of it.
52:57 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So all the moral be good to one another, do good works, build yourself, make yourself a better person, be equal, treat each other with this stuff.
53:05 --> 53:09 [SPEAKER_00]: All of that's there, but I have not seen really any evidence that Jesus is still present in this.
53:10 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, it's interesting to me that the free mason is kind of build themselves off the idea of like Solomon's temple and Solomon, but Solomon is not exactly the he's considered super wise.
53:19 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_00]: He's like the philosopher of the Bible in many ways of ecclesiasties.
53:22 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_00]: but he's not considered the most faithful guy.
53:24 --> 53:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting to me that that's kind of like the free mason center figure that they want you to think about is that it's it's just they're very off and I and we know that they were starting cults in the French Revolution if you don't know much about that we've done episodes across revised studios on it.
53:39 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_00]: but they started several cults trying to replace Christianity, everything from the cult to the supreme being to the cult of reasons, just all these kinds of things.
53:47 --> 53:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like we got to get away from in their mind at the time in the alignment.
53:50 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It was we had to get away from Christianity, but we don't know how to do society.
53:55 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_00]: is secular atheist yet and even Nietzsche and a hundred years from now will basically say you you know when he does his rant on the madman about God he's like you killed God but you just won't admit it to yourselves yet you've done this thing but you live like you didn't and that's really true these guys are trying to have their cake in the it to I want to cut God out of my life but I don't want to give up on community fraternity and all the things that the church provides how can I create this just remove Jesus.
54:21 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that's what every free mason was doing.
54:23 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done the research
54:25 --> 54:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But to me, that's what it looks like.
54:27 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I totally agree.
54:29 --> 54:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I think enough about the free maces for now because we might get lost here and do another like two hour or like Francis Drake, the other way together week.
54:38 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not gonna do that because our story is wrapping up here.
54:42 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Thankfully, he didn't live long enough for us to have a French style episode.
54:45 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, Francis Drake only made it to like 50.
54:48 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But he sure made those 50 years.
54:50 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was out there.
54:52 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, 1791, he full sick, he full's ill, bath fever, and he, uh,
54:59 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_01]: he dies while working and this is actually a very interesting story myth kind of thing there's like two versions of the story but he was asked to write a recreem and a recreem is like your funeral song basically like that is like your like at my funeral like you have your funeral play this now I don't know if that's a thing in the States but I know in the numbers people have like their funeral play yeah I've very I'll even ask you this live on the moment if you what him will be
55:28 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to ask me a him and yeah, well, I mean we all know that that what's that's not my smash mouth I'll start or whatever.
55:34 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna definitely be fine.
55:35 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I know actually there's a there's a him But I don't know English name for it.
55:40 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the English name for it Yeah, I know a great.
55:43 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say English name for it.
55:45 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's in Chinese Let me just look it up like you you tell your him and I'm gonna do my music
55:50 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_00]: hololio what a savior or alfly away I mean those are classics right you got to put the alfly away is great too because it's been played at so many funerals like everyone will be crying by note number two like they're expecting it and so that's just a good one to have um i know it sounds cheesy but even amazing grace i really do love that song i would i would be okay with having any of those kind of
56:08 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, your, your top through your classics would be the ones I'd probably go for.
56:12 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and can it be.
56:13 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That's another one that like, hmm, good one.
56:16 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
56:16 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are mine.
56:17 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
56:17 --> 56:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a long playlist for.
56:18 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to assume those are great picks.
56:19 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be honest.
56:20 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I think almost none of that.
56:23 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't grow up in the States.
56:25 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's all good ones.
56:26 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, send them to me later.
56:27 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
56:28 --> 56:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get into his time as my 20s.
56:29 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So you know what?
56:30 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not too late.
56:31 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
56:31 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_01]: There is hope still.
56:32 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So for me and I noticed one in Dutch and in Dutch, I will say it once.
56:36 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Hultusgetraus and Planafalenit.
56:39 --> 56:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Potterfalenit.
56:43 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for the family.
56:45 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's and I found out it's been translated and it's called our faithful God our faithful God makes plans with cannot fail Do you know that one?
56:54 --> 56:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It's translated by a guy named.
56:57 --> 56:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know a hand Rick Pearson
57:03 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I don't know that one off without my head.
57:05 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
57:05 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one of your having that your feet are all for sure.
57:08 --> 57:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I really like it.
57:09 --> 57:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's a great song just about God, sovereignty.
57:12 --> 57:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's the weirdest way possible.
57:13 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope that you live long enough that I never have to hear it.
57:16 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope like you've lived such a long life.
57:18 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:18 --> 57:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm we're still friends, but we probably moved far away.
57:22 --> 57:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't hear each other.
57:23 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if I end up hearing that song, it means you might have died too soon.
57:26 --> 57:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And that could be very sad.
57:27 --> 57:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
57:27 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So my recryam not for a long time.
57:29 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Same for you.
57:30 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll hear it
57:33 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_01]: by then we can just holograming.
57:34 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll definitely have that down.
57:36 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're on Mars.
57:37 --> 57:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here on the Earth still.
57:39 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_00]: They need to send people.
57:40 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:42 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, he passes away, but he is working on a recording.
57:46 --> 57:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Not his own.
57:48 --> 58:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but like there's like the myth story like an unknown someone asked him to write this record and as he's writing and he starts feeling more uneasy and he's like, I think I'm writing my own record like he feels like this and and his wife will even like later say like it was an angel that commissioned the song.
58:06 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_01]: However, a little bit of a bummer for like, you know, the great myth people on the podcast, but they know who it was, it was like a richer aristocrat who did try to stay a little bit anonymous because he wanted to like, he did this without a composer as well, he commissioned a song.
58:24 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_01]: and they gave it to him and then he would pass it off his own.
58:27 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's that's where the mystery kind of comes from kind of a bad move.
58:30 --> 58:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But uh, there's a column of angels, not the nicest ones.
58:33 --> 58:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that's that's that's very very generous from from Mozart's wife there.
58:38 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So he thought it was his own, but yeah, this is all like you're saying nice myths, but he passes away.
58:45 --> 58:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's unfinished, but later, other people have
58:48 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_01]: written endings to it.
58:49 --> 58:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is actually the one that I mentioned earlier, Lacrimosa, look it up, you will have heard.
58:54 --> 58:56 [SPEAKER_01]: You will know it from the movies.
58:57 --> 58:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He was done to the
59:09 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
59:09 --> 59:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to leave that to someone in the comments.
59:11 --> 59:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to like we want some comments.
59:13 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to leave that one to someone in the comments to to comment on and just say how wrong you were Make it on your base.
59:19 --> 59:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing that was it was it was I think it was now not now I don't want to mess up, but I'm pretty sure that was Beethoven.
59:29 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
59:30 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, guys.
59:30 --> 59:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was pretty embarrassing.
59:32 --> 59:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I do you know there are hardly like some normal people who are listening like I've heard a lot about most are today and then there's somebody who's just being his head against the wall right now like oh my gosh Who let these monkeys talk about me just like we did to save it due to them like that that's that's like, you know, we're not we're not geniuses in any
59:56 --> 59:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
59:56 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, then, you know, this is a good time for you because he's not writing any more symphonies.
01:00:02 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: He passes away 35 or 36.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I read both.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what's up with that.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a calendar thing or something.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there's something to explain, but I actually had the same problem where one said 35, one said 36.
01:00:13 --> 01:00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, like, this is, oh, ever since we done revive thoughts, there have been guys where like, you're like, okay, he has two death ages.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: How is that even possible?
01:00:21 --> 01:00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's actually been happening more lately.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Like in the last year or two, I've seen like an explosion where I like almost, I was like every other episode, but it's like probably one some month where there's a guy who has like multiple ages.
01:00:31 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, is the internet getting dumber and not able to figure out age anymore?
01:00:35 --> 01:00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how we sew AI created articles that now they're like connecting to each other.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what's going on, but it's, I do feel like it's more frequent than I'm running into people who I can't even tell when they die.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so anyway, same for modes are 35 36 at least he didn't live to a very ripe old age.
01:00:52 --> 01:00:53 [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's that's for sure.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is actually because I we're both 35.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is kind of her.
01:00:58 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a lot of old man.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: No, now if yeah, there's like one month where we overlap, but I like it.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sorry.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am 35 and I have not written 41 save for me.
01:01:08 --> 01:01:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have some catching up to do.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got, well, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got, you've got
01:01:36 --> 01:01:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But there are moments when you read a story or learn about a person who's kind of stare at the while you're like, well, I've really done nothing with my life.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I am destined for obscurity because if most people barely know the life story of Mozart and he did all of that, like, there's no way that, and yeah, not that's all about being remembered, but me, I'm really going to be forgotten.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of what I'm getting from it.
01:01:54 --> 01:01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, my own grandkids might not remember me at this pace.
01:01:58 --> 01:02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But you have a podcast or you have several podcasts I have I have several of you out there that will will hopefully recall me the deep into the future and you are yeah yeah I will I will not forget you but Mozart also very much not forgotten like he was he was still his status was just sky high when he passed away I do want to mention the personality notes for him if you don't mind I thought these are just interesting
01:02:20 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: like it was said that you could kind of be soft-spoken, but then he'd get like really animated when he's passionate and excited.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_00]: He loved wearing fancy clothes on stage, so like he would like always be out there practicing and like the newest fanciest fashion again, not good for his budget, probably.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But the guy had the look good when he was out there doing his stuff.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:47 [SPEAKER_00]: He liked to play practical friendly jokes, specifically with one famous horn player, Joseph Lutgup, Lutgup, Lutgup,
01:02:48 --> 01:02:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably an oi, like, Lloyd, goi.
01:02:50 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Lloyd, goi, okay.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but that's what I would go for.
01:02:53 --> 01:02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Guys, they're like riff on each other, which I think is a really fun, like, because I...
01:02:57 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the part of history and stuff that gets forgotten.
01:03:00 --> 01:03:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're all these serious things about Mozart, how intense he is, how awesome he is.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But you don't, and the history books don't usually show you though, yeah, but he would like do for round and play pranks on this guy.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's the part of stuff I love, because that's the part that makes him human, like the rest of us, that's the part that you do.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you, if your story is getting written and remembered,
01:03:19 --> 01:03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have a good friend you like to joke with.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be nice that that part got added on like who's George Washington's best friend.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure somebody does, but like it's not often remembered that he was a level will prankster on the side.
01:03:32 --> 01:03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, he knew several links, uh, Mozart knew several languages and he may have also, um, known English.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't clear.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:47 [SPEAKER_00]: He had a student that was that English composer who, um, he had, he liked total and kind of helped him become a big name later on because of his close relationship with Mozart.
01:03:55 --> 01:04:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And he wrote something to the effect of like this was I mean it was basically an English phrase that wasn't nice Like this isn't your best piece.
01:04:04 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You wasn't your best piece, but like with words that were very English Kind of word that like King James, what he used for donkey was thrown on the paper and it was written in English So like he flew that slam that of English, so it was like okay to he know English as well
01:04:18 --> 01:04:22 [SPEAKER_00]: All of these fun things, these little aside parts of his personality, but now we get to the cracks of the matter.
01:04:22 --> 01:04:26 [SPEAKER_00]: The reason you are here on this show, Mozart, was the accrision.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, was he a Christian?
01:04:43 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the big question we talked about a lot of stuff and mainly I think people already see this coming where the tension is at is like this.
01:04:51 --> 01:05:02 [SPEAKER_01]: There's free Mason Catholic thing and when we actually first started on Mozart and I said, hey, I think this guy is interesting for the podcast because he's a Catholic who's also a free Mason.
01:05:03 --> 01:05:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the first thing we kind of stumbled upon are stumbled over is like Catholic part.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Like how do we,
01:05:08 --> 01:05:28 [SPEAKER_01]: how do we deal with this like like we've had of course we've had like pre reformation catholic people or just like charalaman like he didn't have a choice there wasn't much around but how do you deal with it when Protestantism is around and you know we're both on the Protestant side of things uh how do we definitely yeah yeah yeah absolutely i i i can
01:05:30 --> 01:05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: not a big fan of the Pope for example when it take just a second to say that to because there's this weird thing that goes around I've heard it from friends I've seen online where people say to be rich in church history is to become Catholic or something like that by John Henry Newman from the 1800s I gotta tell you man, I've been running church history podcasts and stuff for a while and I have felt less inclination with every passing year to join the Catholic church no offense if you are a Catholic Christian and you're listening
01:05:56 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't see it at all.
01:05:58 --> 01:06:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I do not see how you could possibly study history and the Bible well and come to the conclusion, I should become a Catholic.
01:06:05 --> 01:06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like saying, I feel like the people saying that don't know church history very well.
01:06:10 --> 01:06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, is it the inquisition or the crusades that are motivating this idea to go in that direction?
01:06:15 --> 01:06:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, in your Catholic attack, you're using the big guns law.
01:06:18 --> 01:06:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was possible.
01:06:19 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just saying, if you're giving a fair and balanced sake on history,
01:06:23 --> 01:06:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel very inclined to join the Catholic church.
01:06:27 --> 01:06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's just a little side.
01:06:28 --> 01:06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear a lot.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I have actually heard people who are nervous.
01:06:31 --> 01:06:34 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll say, I'll say, I'm teaching some church history.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And they get nervous.
01:06:35 --> 01:06:40 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, is this going to affect what my kids believe?
01:06:40 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of that, I really don't think so.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I think Protestants and...
01:06:45 --> 01:06:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, evangelicals should be more confident to share in history because we have a lot of great people in history and things on our side That we don't we don't need to be scared of history or worried that you'll become Catholic.
01:06:54 --> 01:06:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I assure you that I don't think you will yeah
01:06:59 --> 01:07:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think for myself as I was struggling with this, like, how do we deal with this?
01:07:05 --> 01:07:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I came to the conclusion, like, there is things within the Catholic, like, church and as a religion that I struggle with on a, like, a doctrine level that I do not agree with and that is why I'm not Catholic.
01:07:16 --> 01:07:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I do think that there are people within the Catholic Church that really with all their heart of accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and live that out so that that's but how do you deal with that?
01:07:29 --> 01:07:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the doctrinal differences because is it a different denomination or is it like a different religion like mostly like I sort of swirl between the two sometimes like because there
01:07:42 --> 01:07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: denominations and I'm like, that's not what I'm reading in my Bible.
01:07:46 --> 01:07:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But then the Catholic sort of take that and then live it more.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the pope thing, I just don't get it.
01:07:51 --> 01:07:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't get it.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think when talking about church history, like that one has shown itself to not really be a good thing.
01:07:59 --> 01:08:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like poops, I think it's like maybe 50, 50, with W9.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's maybe too unfair.
01:08:04 --> 01:08:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But like there is a lot of bad apples in there.
01:08:06 --> 01:08:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you say he's the representative of God on earth, like it does show, I think accurately the state of humanity, like it does show like what we as a good Calvinist will say that the first one of the tulip, like the tea, that one's definitely there, but, but I still, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what I'm saying, I don't know what
01:08:24 --> 01:08:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
01:08:25 --> 01:08:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't made up my mind.
01:08:26 --> 01:08:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just put it like that.
01:08:27 --> 01:08:33 [SPEAKER_00]: For me, and we're not a theology podcast, so if we get this wrong or if we get a different than you, we apologize.
01:08:34 --> 01:08:34 [SPEAKER_00]: R.C.
01:08:34 --> 01:08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Sproul has asked this question, like, are there Christians or in the, or also in the cat with in the Catholic church?
01:08:40 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, yeah, there you know what, there are some who seem to believe in Jesus still within that movement.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:45 [SPEAKER_00]: There are others.
01:08:45 --> 01:08:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Who are great thinkers on theology of come to that conclusion as well.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, and look, I read the books of GHS, but I liked a lot of what he said in there.
01:08:53 --> 01:08:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel, you know, like he has a lot of good truth to add and there are others as well.
01:08:57 --> 01:09:04 [SPEAKER_00]: J.R. talking obviously a wonderful writer of Lord the Reams and I would be really depressed to find out if he wasn't a follower of the Lord.
01:09:04 --> 01:09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And so.
01:09:05 --> 01:09:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like as Protestants, we can sometimes be a little picky.
01:09:08 --> 01:09:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I've even heard that all the comics start outside.
01:09:09 --> 01:09:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you enjoy Tolkien and Lord of the Rings for the Christian aspects of it.
01:09:13 --> 01:09:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's not, if we're going to write them out, then we have to throw him out as well with that said.
01:09:18 --> 01:09:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Either way, I've kind of explained it with my students and with people before it's I think that you know if this is the cross.
01:09:26 --> 01:09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: we need to see the cross as holy representing who we are and I see it as the Catholic Church with Mary and the angels, the saints and the Pope.
01:09:35 --> 01:09:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like they put all these things between you and the cross that are not from the Bible and it could have skewer the vision of the cross to the point that some people get.
01:09:43 --> 01:09:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think a lot of people have throughout history got distracted by all that other stuff and they did not seem the cross and it really, and it's not
01:09:55 --> 01:10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a big spectrum, even though they're all under one blanket term cast like I don't think that their churches all run exactly the same.
01:10:02 --> 01:10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But with that said to the the process where we also struggle is we're supposed to be looking at the cross we don't maybe put all these scenes in front of the cross from keeping it, but I think we can sometimes tend to downplay the importance of it like we just kind of push it down and like we don't review it what Jesus did on the cross nearly enough so if the problem with the Catholics is that they put to me sacred object between them in what Jesus did I think our problem can be that we take the sacredness of what Jesus did and we kind of just push it down to the point that it's no longer sacred and holy.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Both of those things are wrong, but there's a reason I'm proud of that.
01:10:35 --> 01:10:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that our size correct if you're Catholic and you're listening to this you're going to disagree with that I would imagine I think so too, but now we got that sort of out of the way because this was for us like are we even going to talk about him?
01:10:48 --> 01:10:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Are we going to just skip him completely and in the future as well because it's probably going to come up more and so now we can always refer back to this moment on the podcast like we sort of made our statement
01:11:02 --> 01:11:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Mozart.
01:11:04 --> 01:11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Here comes the letter again that we talked about when his mother passed away as they were in Paris and in this letter he actually like he really talks about God he
01:11:15 --> 01:11:18 [SPEAKER_01]: and like he has a sentence here like God has called her to himself.
01:11:19 --> 01:11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I clearly see that it was his will to take her from us and I must learn to submit to the will of God, the Lord give it and the Lord take it the way.
01:11:26 --> 01:11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He's writing this from under I'm on the
01:11:33 --> 01:11:34 [SPEAKER_00]: uh, his mother passed in a way.
01:11:34 --> 01:11:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So this isn't something he spent like weeks contemplating and put together like a public statement.
01:11:38 --> 01:11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: This is, I think this is his writing.
01:11:40 --> 01:11:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This is as a tool clock in the morning to tell somebody important, a very dear friend of theirs that his mom has died.
01:11:46 --> 01:11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going through a really hard time.
01:11:48 --> 01:11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So deep in the the midnight hours, his pen, it's writing this letter of heart felt pain and he's turning to God and and turning two verses like the Lord gives and Lord takes away.
01:12:00 --> 01:12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: What else would you want to see?
01:12:01 --> 01:12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you got this message, your text from your friend or your brother's sister, so when they're mom passed, I can't fit your brother's sister, it's your mom also passed away too.
01:12:11 --> 01:12:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The point is, somebody close to you, this is the message they send at three o'clock in the morning, and you wake up to this one, I think you would be really encouraged, even though your friend is going through a very hard time, it would be encouraged by what you're seeing come out of their faith here.
01:12:25 --> 01:12:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
01:12:26 --> 01:12:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just trying to find because maybe you feel coming a little bit, but there is a shift coming here.
01:12:33 --> 01:12:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But I can't find actually what year it is was, but a little later, we have another letter from Oatsart and this is what I believe was like 17, once it was like 77, I thought I should have put the date when I found that letter.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it was probably I think I think it was a
01:12:51 --> 01:13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so now we're getting to a time, so in 1784, he has joined the free Masons or has become involved with them, joined them, and in 1785, he is writing a letter to his dad, who actually was worried about him becoming a free Mason.
01:13:06 --> 01:13:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And now he's writing this.
01:13:09 --> 01:13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I am firmly convinced that the whole of mankind, whatever religion or sexy may belong to, if he only lives virtually and acts well will be saved.
01:13:18 --> 01:13:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Death is the true ultimate purpose of our life.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I have now become so reconciled with it that I never go to bed without thinking that perhaps, young as I am, I may not see the next day.
01:13:27 --> 01:13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I do want to clarify.
01:13:29 --> 01:13:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I do apologize.
01:13:31 --> 01:13:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought I had written this into the notes.
01:13:32 --> 01:13:36 [SPEAKER_00]: The very first part of that is apocryphal.
01:13:37 --> 01:14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really do apologize for everyone that I didn't put that in the notes because I researched a lot and that was actually one of the things that became very frustrating about this episode is that there are a bunch of quotes that started appearing attributed to him around the 1900s that at least from the research I did it will they were fake but that really muddies the water so that was part where he says I am firmly convinced of the whole main kind of whatever religion or sect
01:14:02 --> 01:14:04 [SPEAKER_00]: If he lives virtually well in Acts, we'll be saved.
01:14:04 --> 01:14:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That part is false.
01:14:05 --> 01:14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: The next part that you said, death is the true ultimate purpose.
01:14:08 --> 01:14:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I have now become so reconcile with that.
01:14:10 --> 01:14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That part was real.
01:14:12 --> 01:14:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And someone, it seems to be around the 1950s.
01:14:14 --> 01:14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I put on the quote, it's obviously a powerful, in the 1950s, I added that first part, making him come across as a universalist.
01:14:22 --> 01:14:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Because when I saw that quote, I thought, well, there it is.
01:14:24 --> 01:14:27 [SPEAKER_00]: He believes all people are going to have and that's the universalist.
01:14:27 --> 01:14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can very clearly write him off.
01:14:29 --> 01:14:47 [SPEAKER_01]: because those would be like Masonic ideas, thoughts, and they are really all about how do you grasp with this concept of death and that's actually one of their, like I think one of their tests or rituals is really about like how do you get to grips with this whole idea of death?
01:14:47 --> 01:14:52 [SPEAKER_01]: But like if the second half the quote is still his then you definitely see that as well.
01:14:52 --> 01:14:53 [SPEAKER_00]: The same letter down here he says
01:14:54 --> 01:14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: hitting him when it comes to someone dying death is the true end of life.
01:14:58 --> 01:15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I have found this deep peace and contemplating death.
01:15:02 --> 01:15:05 [SPEAKER_00]: These things are very Masonic, this idea that death is like what they would.
01:15:05 --> 01:15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, okay, so is Christianity also would apply, you know, the Lord, we're going dying is going on to be the Lord, right?
01:15:13 --> 01:15:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So,
01:15:14 --> 01:15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a difficult one because against so much of it and it's really the free mason's fault.
01:15:18 --> 01:15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They created something that's meant to mimic Christianity so hard.
01:15:22 --> 01:15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That is very difficult to see where the one ends and the other begins.
01:15:25 --> 01:15:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very true.
01:15:26 --> 01:15:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, so this is kind of hard, but then there is this other quote that is confirmed to be to be real.
01:15:34 --> 01:15:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope and firmly believe that God will not abandon me.
01:15:37 --> 01:15:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I place all my trust in him.
01:15:40 --> 01:15:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Which sounds nice when you read it the first time and it is nice like it's a very good thing to say obviously, but again, also a very Masonic thing to say in a sense that they also like one of their like rules in the rulebook is like you have to
01:16:03 --> 01:16:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to frame this one or how to see this one like do we think like this is actually like the the Christian side or the Masonic side or can they actually coincide here can it be both I'm I'm not sure and and
01:16:18 --> 01:16:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's it's a hard one with Mozart because there is not a lot of evidence like there's a lot of like of his works like he did like he wrote a bunch of stuff for the church like you know masses and all those things like he put the work in the big deal and be on that so I mean naturally it would be there yeah yeah so Is it time Troy is it time to to come to a verdict.
01:16:41 --> 01:16:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I am ready to pass my verdict and I want to start with a story because I realized partially that I haven't mentioned this yet, and if I don't mention now, I won't get to.
01:16:50 --> 01:16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: But it also captures my feelings towards Mozart, which is, I was once in Vienna, long time ago.
01:16:55 --> 01:16:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And when I was in Vienna, there's not a lot to do, and it's really cold because it was everywhere.
01:16:59 --> 01:17:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the best time to visit Vienna, but we went to Budapest on the same trip, and that was actually a great time to be a Budapest super fun.
01:17:06 --> 01:17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Who tasted better there?
01:17:07 --> 01:17:08 [SPEAKER_00]: The internet, cold, everything was cold.
01:17:09 --> 01:17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and while we were there, we spent 25 euros a ticket to visit one of Mozart's house that he had when he was there and, um, we got there.
01:17:19 --> 01:17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: We were excited.
01:17:20 --> 01:17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, you're thinking, didn't you just say, like, didn't you just explain that you have no knowledge about art?
01:17:24 --> 01:17:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:17:26 --> 01:17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But I did get to visit his house, um, and I didn't know much, and they played his music as we wandered around a thought.
01:17:32 --> 01:17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and the whole time, like, oh, that's good song.
01:17:34 --> 01:17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that was it.
01:17:35 --> 01:17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that sounds good.
01:17:36 --> 01:17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He's really good at that.
01:17:37 --> 01:17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So about the same level, and as you can see, it really inspired me to go home and listen to what's hurt.
01:17:42 --> 01:17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: The end is really big.
01:17:43 --> 01:17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It has a lot of music museums, really cool if you get the chance to go to it, but person that preferred Budapest, and that's travel, hence for me, getting the point, though.
01:17:50 --> 01:17:55 [SPEAKER_01]: As we enter the place, paid my tickets, go upstairs, no flash photography, no cameras.
01:17:55 --> 01:17:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't take pictures of anything, get very serious about that.
01:17:58 --> 01:18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And I realized why, when we got there, it's empty.
01:18:01 --> 01:18:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The whole thing isn't, it's just walls and windows.
01:18:04 --> 01:18:07 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no bed, there's no desk, anything.
01:18:07 --> 01:18:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just the person there.
01:18:08 --> 01:18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like four rooms.
01:18:10 --> 01:18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And the person there was like, imagine what this, what you can picture his desk over here.
01:18:15 --> 01:18:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You could picture him sleeping over there.
01:18:17 --> 01:18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, yeah, I have to picture it because there's nothing here.
01:18:20 --> 01:18:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an empty room.
01:18:22 --> 01:18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It looked good on the outside.
01:18:23 --> 01:18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I paid a lot of money to visit it, but there's nothing here.
01:18:27 --> 01:18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: metaphor, not just an excuse to complain of how to trip to Mozart's house, that I realized I wouldn't get to complain about it if I didn't put it anywhere else, but also metaphor.
01:18:37 --> 01:18:40 [SPEAKER_00]: On the outside, a lot of what Mozart does looks kind of good.
01:18:40 --> 01:18:41 [SPEAKER_00]: He creates a lot of music for the church.
01:18:42 --> 01:18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: He has a lot of mention of God and his letters.
01:18:45 --> 01:18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But I can't help but feel like maybe in the maybe I'm wrong.
01:18:48 --> 01:18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's no big scandals to point this way to me.
01:18:53 --> 01:18:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But it feels a little empty.
01:18:54 --> 01:18:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it feels like it's good dressing on the outside.
01:18:56 --> 01:18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He speaks a lot of the right words on the outside.
01:18:59 --> 01:19:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But on the inside, I can't tell if his faith was actually legitimate.
01:19:03 --> 01:19:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if you wanted to be a composer in Vienna, you had to be a free Mason.
01:19:07 --> 01:19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You had to be a Catholic.
01:19:09 --> 01:19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He did hate.
01:19:10 --> 01:19:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Some people too, we didn't mention this.
01:19:12 --> 01:19:16 [SPEAKER_00]: He really hated Voltaire, which was like one of the biggest atheists, not atheists, but basically atheists of his era.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But even that, like scholars asked a question, like, did he actually mean these things?
01:19:21 --> 01:19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Or was he a lot of these are letters to his dad?
01:19:23 --> 01:19:27 [SPEAKER_00]: His dad is very faithful, very firm Catholic.
01:19:27 --> 01:19:28 [SPEAKER_00]: He wants to keep his dad happy.
01:19:29 --> 01:19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not necessarily so cynical as to think Mozart.
01:19:31 --> 01:19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And clearly, he married his wife against his dad's permission.
01:19:33 --> 01:19:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He was clearly willing to tell his dad what he thought, but some people say, well, maybe he was just adding those things to his letters to make his dad happy.
01:19:39 --> 01:19:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not necessarily going to say that, but I just...
01:19:43 --> 01:19:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Outside of his letter around his mom's death and a few comments, you know, you'll say, you know, think of this happen, think the Lord that happened.
01:19:49 --> 01:19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: But it just, it's really hard to see that firm faith of a Christian life that I would want to see.
01:19:55 --> 01:19:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what necessarily, maybe that thing is that I do want to see.
01:19:59 --> 01:20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But I just, I haven't seen anything that makes me go, this guy loves Jesus with all his heart.
01:20:04 --> 01:20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm kind of going with a, I don't know, but I, I'm leaning with, I don't see it.
01:20:10 --> 01:20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think and this is going to get boring for for our listeners for our viewers.
01:20:16 --> 01:20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking the same way not necessarily like, or maybe to bring another argument to the table.
01:20:21 --> 01:20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Because what kind of surprised me is the way like, okay, he grows up like within the Catholic church.
01:20:27 --> 01:20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he knows everything.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he's been behind the scenes.
01:20:31 --> 01:20:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he's writing music.
01:20:32 --> 01:20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He really, he's hung out with the arts bishop and all those things.
01:20:37 --> 01:20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But when Freemasonry comes along and, you know, he gets into the law, it seems what you read from it about it and the stuff he writes for it, like the music, the magic flute.
01:20:49 --> 01:20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He seems so much more in his element.
01:20:51 --> 01:20:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he really seems to sort of have found that, like, there was this hole in his life and it's now being filled up with this Masonic brotherhood.
01:20:59 --> 01:20:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of,
01:21:00 --> 01:21:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Tells me maybe that he wasn't getting that fulfillment from his relationship with the Lord and with Jesus, so
01:21:07 --> 01:21:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We were talking about this before and I'm also leaning to like I just don't know To words, but like and I don't know slash if you put me under the gun right now.
01:21:18 --> 01:21:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say no decision, but more on the lack of Evidence towards so yes and like just the the evidence that we do have is kind of leaning like middle to know like
01:21:31 --> 01:21:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of where I'm at here.
01:21:32 --> 01:21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, that he's involved with.
01:21:34 --> 01:21:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the fact that he's involved the free maintenance at all, we don't see him ever kind of pushing him back on that.
01:21:39 --> 01:21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: He uses a lot of Christian language.
01:21:41 --> 01:21:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, it feels weird to say, I don't feel strongly about him.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess what I was, I guess maybe the lesson from Mozart is,
01:21:50 --> 01:21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't get so caught up in pursuing music that 250 years from now, people can't tell if you're a Christian or not.
01:21:56 --> 01:22:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, maybe make another part of your life, you're the Christ part of your life, be a legacy that also stands the past of time.
01:22:04 --> 01:22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also don't want to part of firm in my opinion firm know on that because what there are aspects of his life that do look Christiany on the outside.
01:22:14 --> 01:22:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe because his history was so, you know, a secular eye so back and forth, it was such a Vienna was itself in the middle of the Enlightenment.
01:22:23 --> 01:22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they didn't want to mention that one of their favorite composers was a super faithful guy.
01:22:27 --> 01:22:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it just got lost through the cracks.
01:22:29 --> 01:22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't want to completely write them off.
01:22:31 --> 01:22:36 [SPEAKER_00]: There is pieces of it that could if you put them with a little more evidence put the tower together and get that
01:22:37 --> 01:22:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not it's not clear and I would like if I'm a famous composer loves to use as I would like it to be I would like our composers our musicians our people who are serving the Lord out there and those kind of famous ways to be more clear so that we don't have to sit here in a second guess so much.
01:22:54 --> 01:23:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and just as an extra argument here, like we we've mentioned our composers think of like handle who is written the Messiah like that one's that one's a pretty clear one like that's pretty strong That one's he's he's following the Lord over there.
01:23:06 --> 01:23:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So compared to him, Mozart's a much murky or much gray area and a lot of again, a lot of the evidence points to know the lesson might be
01:23:15 --> 01:23:19 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are in those situations, live your life in a way that we don't, we don't, we don't wonder.
01:23:20 --> 01:23:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:23:20 --> 01:23:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Super clear.
01:23:21 --> 01:23:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
01:23:21 --> 01:23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Our affirmly following the Lord because it's kind of sad if he was a Christian, it didn't become a clear history.
01:23:27 --> 01:23:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that is a lesson we can learn here or maybe the lesson is Mark and Troy didn't do their research and if you're thinking that and you have stuff to add to this, like we've mentioned before, we want to do like comment episodes, maybe like, you know, once we we roll these out, you've seen them, you rise an email, shoot us a comment and just tell us, like, hey, you missed this important piece and because we really want this to be a life thing as well, like we don't want to like put a pin and close the book on it, never go back to it.
01:23:56 --> 01:24:09 [SPEAKER_01]: If we're wrong, we'd love to discuss it more because I think there is stuff to learn or like we now just said like we're not seeing it, well maybe you have that piece of information that does show it and then we can learn from it on how to live our lives.
01:24:10 --> 01:24:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, very importantly, if you know maybe more of a piece of about the three mason that we missed,
01:24:15 --> 01:24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: don't please don't just write us like how Barack Obama was a lizard person to start with them.
01:24:19 --> 01:24:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, like, you must, if you have real pieces of information from the pre-masons or real pieces that we're missing, that the Anna Christian scene or you have, if we have some stuff out there, that's great.
01:24:29 --> 01:24:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Please send in our way.
01:24:29 --> 01:24:36 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be sure to bring those comments up and say here's some, it's some added context that we weren't able to figure out on our own, but we would appreciate that.
01:24:37 --> 01:24:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Leave those comments, messages, and get that to us.
01:24:39 --> 01:24:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll put together these comment episodes.
01:24:41 --> 01:24:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We can really bring the opinions strongly where we're coming from.
01:24:45 --> 01:24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's it.
01:24:47 --> 01:24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: There we have it.
01:24:48 --> 01:24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Mozart, a maybe from us.
01:24:50 --> 01:24:51 [SPEAKER_00]: A maybe I'm concerned.
01:24:52 --> 01:24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's that's right.
01:24:52 --> 01:24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
01:24:53 --> 01:24:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a maybe, but concern no.
01:24:55 --> 01:24:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're in agreement on that.
01:24:57 --> 01:24:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So my name is Mark.
01:24:59 --> 01:25:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I name is Troy.
01:25:00 --> 01:25:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You're listening to your shunner not.