In our final Feedback episode of Season 1 of Christian or Not, Mark and Troy respond to your thoughts and comments on Charles Dickens, Ernest Shackleton, and Woodrow Wilson!
We discuss the most common questions people are asking, the surprising pushback, where we may have gotten it wrong, and some of the wild comments we saw. These feedback episodes help make sure we get the opinion as close to correct as possible.
Thank you for watching, commenting, and making Season 1 better because of your engagement. Season 2 is already being recorded thanks to your support!
Search “Christian or Not” on YouTube or your favorite podcast app for more if you're not already subscribed.
Want an episode on someone we haven't covered? Let us know who!
00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Christian or not is a production of Revive Studios.
00:06 --> 00:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Christian or not another feedback episode.
00:09 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It has been a few weeks if you're listening to this live all they're coming out and maybe if you're listening to it back to back it has been only minutes but welcome back we're excited to go through comments every episode we go through these lives of different people we say whether they're Christian or not we know only God knows the hearts but
00:25 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: we try to do the best we can to judge their actions.
00:27 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And then afterwards we've gone through the minds of many wonderful people.
00:31 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We asked for you to give us feedback.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us what you thought.
00:33 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Did we get it right?
00:34 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Did we get it wrong?
00:36 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: What are some things that we missed?
00:37 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And you have sent comments, emails, even talk to us in person and shared the many different things that you think that we have gotten right and wrong.
00:45 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And so now we are excited to go through some of those comments.
00:48 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of these comments are really great, good wisdom, glad you added them.
00:52 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them quite wild.
00:53 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm excited to get to both kinds of comments here.
00:56 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_01]: This is Troy.
00:58 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: My name is Mark, and is this Christian or not?
01:07 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Troy, comments, and it's, you know, this will also be the final episode of Season 1 because now we talk about the last three episodes.
01:16 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're wrapping up, but before we go there, how are you feeling today, Troy?
01:20 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm feeling good.
01:21 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a strange day.
01:22 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I've had many, many, many technological mishaps, including just recording, an episode of Revaya Thoughts, power went out.
01:29 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's been a very interesting date, but otherwise, I'm pretty good.
01:33 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_00]: How about
01:34 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm good.
01:34 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and what better way to show the power that we, you know, we can still do it by setting up cameras, getting all our laptops out and just recording anyway, and hope that we make it.
01:44 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope the power doesn't go out again.
01:46 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would be a bit of a bummer.
01:48 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I'm feeling okay that people can't see because it's out of frame, but my my whole leg is in like a knee brace because I had a
01:55 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_01]: had a procedure done, something was broken or not broken.
01:59 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Something was damaged.
02:00 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_01]: They tried to fix it, and now I can move it.
02:02 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just, if you see me sitting a little bit weird, that's it, but hopefully to mind is okay, and I can still talk about these comments.
02:11 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you leave any bad comments, we'll just blame your luggage.
02:14 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
02:15 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how could you, you know, how could you rip on, you know, an injured person?
02:18 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I dare you.
02:20 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
02:21 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly the vibe we want to go into this
02:24 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I really do love the feedback really like it's every time we get comments I send I we create a whole document.
02:29 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited to share and go over these some and and like I said It's really fun because the format of the show is like we put up our idea What do you think and I just love seeing people's thoughts where they're like, oh, you got this wrong Here's why I when I I've run other podcasts before and there hasn't really been an outlet for people to tell me why I'm wrong
02:48 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not sure, maybe I wouldn't have been thick skinned enough a year as a guy when I first started podcasting to hear a lot of reasons why I'm wrong on things.
02:54 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But honestly, I think it's a lot of fun and I don't agree with everybody's opinions, but I'm excited to get to them because it's part of the process of the show.
03:01 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.
03:02 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you said in the intro already, like, you know, the shows called Christopher, not and we talk about these people's lives.
03:08 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, we're not here.
03:09 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the sense,
03:11 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_01]: there's some judging happening but we're not here to judge and we just want to start conversations like okay if this person said they was a they were a Christian like how do we see it what would it look like what lessons can we learn even from the like you know what can I learn from from you know presidents what can I learn from a businessman that said he was a Christian how was he living it out so and start those conversations as well about you know
03:35 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: what are important things in our theology even that we we talked about new to a few episodes back and talked you know we got really into apologetics as well so so that's really what this is all about also these comment episodes we already said we're not doing comments on the comment episode but we're actually starting with one because uh this is yes
03:54 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_01]: YB or yes, see me.
03:55 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, see.
03:56 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
03:56 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, see eversponging saying great feedback episode.
03:59 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
03:59 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, thanks Kind of positive energy.
04:02 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We want to start the first feedback, you know, met a mile with that right there.
04:06 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably because Troy doesn't want to talk about the second comment here on that.
04:11 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's a that's for about I did I not Moistly tell me it's still in there.
04:16 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so then I'll go ahead and say it then right off the bat goes come on Troy.
04:20 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't start humming Beethoven when talking about Mozart
04:24 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_00]: many, many people in my personal life.
04:27 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I learned, you learn how many people listen to your show when they make fun of you, for not knowing the difference between Beethoven and Mozart.
04:35 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But now I know it is Mozart who goes, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da
04:45 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You actually used that one in the last episode as well because what was it again?
04:47 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it Vorak?
04:49 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Something, uh, The Vorak was so cool.
04:51 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:51 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:51 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:51 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
04:52 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So cool.
04:52 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's okay.
04:53 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_00]: If I'm sure you've all been listening to it ever since I recommended it to you every young man.
04:57 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're a young person, you should have one great poem you love and you should have one great symphony in your life.
05:03 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That's I think every young man should have one.
05:05 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes agreed agreed such wisdom already we're only a few minutes in this it's amazing So how I turn a comment about me being stupid I made a sound smart so that's that's what we do We're acting that's the whole point of these comment episodes Yeah, so we're we're talking um
05:21 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: specifically today about the last three episodes of season one, which are Troy's personal favorite, Woodward Wilson, and we have Charles Dickens in there and Ernest Sheckleton, but you already noticed we do a little bit like if people still comment on the other episodes we still
05:36 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_01]: get those in there.
05:37 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So we actually have a Mozart comment here still where the same guess he'd be that reply to the comment episode said great episode about Mozart.
05:47 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a music major at a Christian University.
05:49 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And next you remember I'm music history professor.
05:52 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: speaking about Handel not being a Christian but the Messiah was written as an encounter between him and God would be super interesting for you to do the research and have an episode on him and then about Mozart grade episode.
06:04 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I've good news for you.
06:05 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he Handel is actually on the list for season two.
06:10 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Little spoiler right there.
06:11 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He is.
06:13 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But I thought he was a Christian.
06:14 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought so.
06:15 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm kind of sad, you see.
06:17 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_00]: When I read that comment, you're like, oh, we all know handles on the Christian, but you should do an episode.
06:20 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, wait, handles not a Christian.
06:22 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought he used to Messiah.
06:24 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's not the Messiah.
06:27 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the Messiah.
06:29 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, wait a second, it's making me, I mean, exactly the point of this show, by the way.
06:33 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess I now know how some of the listeners feel when maybe we landed on a bad place for their people, but I was like, oh no.
06:39 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we'd like to look at handle and find out.
06:42 --> 06:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Be kind of a bummer to find out if he isn't, but hey, yeah, I mean, we actually we have the CD for the Messiah in our car radio right now listen to it.
06:50 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's it's one of our favorites, especially my wife.
06:53 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_01]: She actually joined and I'm sharing all these things that we should actually say for the actual handle episode, but it will be a while before your quote itself just tell it again, but she actually did like a
07:04 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_01]: They call this Cretch Messiah, so like you learn from scratch the Messiah.
07:08 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So you have a full day like with a giant choir like a thousand people sign up I think and you just learn the choir parts and then they have some professionals They have some musicians and then in the evening you do a performance of the Messiah and you can just join in and so she didn't that with that with her mother And it was like a dream come true to sing it so I know for sure She would be very disappointed if he turns out and he wasn't actually a Christian
07:30 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_01]: This is one person's music history professor saying we've not researched yet.
07:35 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So here's a bit of a cliffhanger for you guys.
07:39 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We will make an episode on him, but we can tell you just yet on handle.
07:43 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you, yes, see for commenting.
07:46 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like we're still getting to handle on him.
07:51 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Troy, we talked about this.
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: We, that was a good one.
07:55 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going back down.
07:57 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
07:57 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say this, having run mini church history podcasts and been doing this for well over seven years, music is a giant blind spot in my in my in any or like, yeah, I know, it wasn't the comment above this that you're humming Beethoven or whatever.
08:10 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not like a musical genius here.
08:13 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to the music history side of things,
08:17 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a giant blind spot in our studio, so I'll be curious to find out, I hope I'm hoping for a handle that would be a bummer because he's got good some good jams.
08:27 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I've not done what your wife did which sounds super cool, but there was a people in this community who used to throw a handle's Messiah party and I would go to it and I would get lost trying to sing along like everyone else and it was a complete mess in terms of keeping up, but it was fun and eventually
08:47 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they're like, oh, finally we've arrived in the part that I can sing along with in the 30 minutes of just getting beat up and sing at the wrong spots finally pay off.
08:55 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's yeah.
08:57 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we all know we all know to Messiah and it's it's amazing.
09:00 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So we will get a handle on it.
09:03 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There we go.
09:04 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
09:04 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Join in.
09:05 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've been.
09:07 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we said in the previous comment episode my wife told me I should laugh more about your jokes I should you know not easily glance over them.
09:15 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So trying to be a good husband here right here Just by choice best efforts.
09:20 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, glad that your wife was like pity choice sad jokes and all right food the next one Yes, all right, so now we're getting to more recent episode to the more recent ones let's get over to Woodrow Wilson then when we put out Woodrow Wilson long-term listeners
09:35 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_00]: of revised studios production were quick to let us know that this is not my first radio going after Woodrow Wilson.
09:43 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, I just said every young man should have a good symphony, every young man should have a good poem.
09:48 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think every good man should have a 35-minute, over-molonger monologue ready to derail and attack Woodrow Wilson with all their heart and gusto.
09:57 --> 10:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's just, again, just things that every man should be able to win.
10:05 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Chris here says excellent episode on America's worst president give it a listen.
10:10 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Chris.
10:11 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't agree more Phil also said ironic maybe I was watching but but watching this Netflix World War One documentary featured Wood War Wilson, but then afterwards I listened to the newest podcast from my studios episode Christian or not.
10:25 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
10:26 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Saudi watching this at my dental office.
10:27 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you recommend it's called the great word two part?
10:29 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've seen that one actually.
10:30 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good, but uh,
10:31 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_00]: guys don't make time for Netflix documentaries.
10:34 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get to the revised studio catalog first step now.
10:36 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just kidding.
10:38 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually want to watch this documentary now because the people may remember from the Woodrow Wilson episode that even though we did it twice because it was one of our pilot triode episodes way back.
10:50 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know Woodrow as well because, you know, we didn't really learn about him much in Dutch schools.
10:57 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though I don't know the influence
11:00 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad that the Netherlands was trying to protect you from his influence.
11:04 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, I don't know, at least so I went in pretty neutral.
11:10 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Troy went in with a Vendetta.
11:12 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: He was ready to bash Woodrow.
11:16 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I even said this, I think, in the episode like all our episodes we make scripts like we do research, everything Woodrow Wilson had no script.
11:24 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just Troy.
11:24 --> 11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: This is in front of a mic ready to go.
11:27 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I technically do have a script, but I've, again, memorized it to heart as all people should, and I, again, every young man, you should, every old man, every middle eight babies, all right, we should all be honest.
11:38 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you may say this is ridiculous.
11:39 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a friend of mine, a personal friend of friend of Marks as well.
11:43 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Recently got a book on Woodrow Wilson read it.
11:46 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_00]: and came back, I was like, you're even more right than you know.
11:51 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And they wanted us to let you know, and this was one aspect of Woodrow's and I thought I had a pretty complete picture, but did not know this.
11:57 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_00]: He does not have a real PhD.
12:02 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was fascinating.
12:03 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably the cherry on top of the mini cherries on top of the hatewood jewel some Sunday I can still find new things to hate about it and it's basically the way my girlfriend and you think you heard this from her as well That she he basically I don't even think he got an undergrad.
12:18 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't even finish his undergrad if he did he barely finished it then he
12:23 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I paid is not like pride, but just kind of got favors until someone gave it on masters and then got favors until he got a PhD.
12:32 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So his America's only ever PhD president, but you ran it through an AI Gemini, and after basically pushing it over and over again to admit, did he get a PhD the right way?
12:42 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_00]: If finally it was like, no, this would not be the qualifications for PhD that were set down by Hopkins University.
12:49 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_00]: He definitely had a unique path to his PhD.
12:52 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it took me some probing to finally get it to say like, because it kept saying, so to what happened according, you know, and this was like really just late afternoon right before this episode, doing some research on this, what happened was he sort of, he dropped out.
13:07 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he wasn't John Hopkins University, but he didn't like, they mentioned German class, which is, you know, someone ironic, given the rest of his history, uh, didn't like German,
13:20 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_01]: that's the better word yeah and he so he dropped out but then a year later he wrote a book that really you know his views on politics and all kinds of things and people loved it and so I actually asked like the AI so was it then just the university trying to write the wave of his his popularity by giving him the doctorate and said
13:42 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, well, actually maybe yes, that is actually kind of what happened and then so it summarizes it as the university bent its own administrative rules to claim Wilson success as their own and gave him the PhD so even though he is the only US president that had a PhD on his curriculum.
14:00 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_01]: turns out it wasn't like a like a really valid or, you know, the way that other people were earning their PhD.
14:07 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: The person who told this story to me basically said he was, and I hope I'm not miss quoting it too much.
14:12 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But that they were given that he was given a test.
14:15 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, oh, if he just passed this test, you can kind of jump up to the top.
14:18 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And he pretty much didn't even pass the test.
14:20 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And they still gave it to him.
14:22 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and this was, they had read a book on a very research, and again, this person who, I don't know that they went in neutral, because how could you go in neutral, the Woodrow Wilson, obviously, but they were like, oh my gosh, you, you know, you've understated his Diabloness at this point, and I had taught this person's kids history class, and I had taught every class, and even mention of Woodrow was preceded by the devil, you know, Woodrow Wilson.
14:43 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we,
14:48 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: not enough entertainment there.
14:50 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Next comment says from K to the cross podcast at this point Troy is picking on Woodrow Wilson and is totally deserved and doesn't and never needs to stop.
14:58 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I would agree.
15:00 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He can feel free to ask me to stop at any point.
15:04 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: When he actually got to go on, Kate of the Cross podcast, Patrick Hadishan was very great.
15:08 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about Woodrow.
15:09 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He did get on to me.
15:10 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I said something to the effect of like he caused the Federal Reserve, but I don't know if that's a big deal or something like that in the episode.
15:17 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't mean it that way.
15:18 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it stumbled over my words because again, I was going scriptless.
15:21 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the Federal Reserve has had a lot of issues and I'm not a big fan of it.
15:25 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going back to the old gold system and all that, but you know, the 18 at the Guild of Ages past.
15:30 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's where I'm sitting right now if we could get back to that.
15:32 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so this is a guy who said I still could have gone hard around him, but it was a great to be on it show we had a lot of fun with Patrick and first ever show that Mark got to be on so yes my first ever interview with the cave through the crowd across podcast I was a little nervous for sorry because they're all about apologetics and all those things and I've you know pretty.
15:51 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_01]: new to the to that field.
15:53 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was glad I could just bounce all the hard questions to Roy and then just you know throw in a couple of amenz and yes, sirs, and you know, look really good.
16:03 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You did great.
16:04 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It was fun.
16:05 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was nice.
16:05 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't had an interview partner in a while.
16:07 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, oh, this guy said someone else something.
16:09 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That just be 100% on me.
16:11 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was it was enjoyable.
16:13 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so check that one I gave to the cross-puck cast.
16:16 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We have another another one in Woodrow Wilson.
16:19 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He drew quite a few comments.
16:21 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the end of him.
16:22 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is from through Spotify from Andrew Wapples.
16:27 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: First Christian episode for me, you guys did a great job explaining Woodrow's beliefs in the agenda, which history seems to forget tying it all back into Christ along with saying, only got no start.
16:37 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't wait for more.
16:38 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is actually, this is a very fair comment, and we try to be really clear about this and all the episodes, hopefully, in the end, it's not like we're saying, hey, this person isn't having this person, it's not, we just give our two cents, we talk about, we think about it, we sort of even test our own hearts on the subject matters that we run into, but in the end,
17:06 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to add to that too.
17:07 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We've had a couple of different people say, hey, you give that spiel in every episode.
17:10 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because as for starters, every episode is someone's first episode.
17:13 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So I do want them to hear that.
17:14 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: But at any, it's also just us kind of keeping ourselves humble, reminding us what this shows about.
17:18 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But I really appreciate it going back and forth because we hear different and we'll see one of these comments later on.
17:24 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But we'll hear people basically like, wait, you said this person was bad for this, but this person is good.
17:28 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is the standard?
17:29 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've really enjoyed.
17:30 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I enjoy, so I'll put out on, you know, my social media feeds for revive studios, like, hey, I'll put out questions to just kind of like, I like trying to figure out what it is I value.
17:40 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So people will get mad at me and they'll be like, oh my gosh, why are you making this?
17:43 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll say, you have to do one thing for the next 30 days.
17:46 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you pray or do you read your Bible?
17:47 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, 30% of the comments go, I do both.
17:50 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, yeah, that's not helpful.
17:51 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other people, basically, while I answer any of these, and that's something that will get them out of me.
17:54 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why would you ask this question?
17:55 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, because it's interesting to learn what we value.
17:59 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, which one would if you could only choose one, which of those two would you do?
18:04 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you should do both.
18:06 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, I learned more about myself when I have to ask myself which one would I do and when I look at these people's lives and then people say wait a minute, was this an inconsistency then I go back and I go was I being inconsistent you know what what was the day of the week did something or is there a real value reason I look at this person and that so we know we don't judge the heart if you hear that all the time we're like yeah
18:26 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But I still think there's like so much merit and just the conversations of figuring out, why can I feel very confident Woodrow Wilson, who on paper had so much good for him, but I look at him and I call him the devil pretty confidently, whereas someone else who, we had another, other people that didn't have nearly as much paperwork showing they were Christian, and yet I much more lenient on them.
18:48 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, part of it is my heart and the way I judge, and I'm aware of that, but I think part of it is, it's just,
18:53 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_00]: us exploring what we value and if we don't have a conversation about what we want to try to do that, we just, you know, I put my hands in the air and go, I'm not going to miss out on learning those kind of things.
19:04 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that is very true and I think actually that is one of the, I feel the pitfalls of the modern era where we just,
19:14 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we kind of shy away from these kinds of conversations where we're just like, no, you do you and it's, you know, it's all fine and you just live your life in your way and I live it in my way and we all leave each other alone.
19:25 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, we have the Bible to, you know, it's clear guidelines for us to live by.
19:30 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There is, there is a measuring rod for us to put our life next to and to learn and grow in discipleship.
19:36 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so that's why, yeah, same, totally agree with you.
19:43 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why do we do it?
19:44 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But don't want to, you know, uh, get too far ahead of ourselves because I want to connect it to a later comment.
19:50 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, let's launch here.
19:52 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cgva 2000 on YouTube.
19:55 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would imagine that was the parents, certain the name their parents actually did give them.
20:00 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_00]: C.G.V.A.
20:01 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_00]: 2000 says Wilson was a staunch predestinarian, but the difference between him and Lincoln was that he lacked humility.
20:07 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He tried to synchronize cultural Christianity with humanism whether he realized it or not.
20:11 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We should take you to avoid the same pitfalls, read more.
20:13 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So clearly I didn't grab the full screenshot.
20:15 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I do apologize C.G.V.A.
20:17 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that that's the only difference between him and Lincoln.
20:20 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We actually have, I believe Lincoln down for our season two episode.
20:24 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure he's in there.
20:26 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to look at the full episode.
20:27 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you don't like it.
20:28 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But I would like to say, I definitely agree that with your main point, which is, I think that there's a, I don't know about the pre-dustin area.
20:35 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I know he was a Calvinist, he's, you know, in the very much would have been in the reform community.
20:39 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_00]: He was friends with J.Gresh on the H.M.B.B., or if you don't know who those people are,
20:48 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But I would say that I think if you would summarize the difference between Lincoln and Woodrow Wilson as Lincoln had humility and Woodrow Wilson did not, I at least I haven't done the research to prove Lincoln one way or the other, but I would agree with that.
21:03 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_00]: that on what I know about Lincoln in the general sense, I want to know about Woodrow Wilson in the specific sense, Woodrow had a huge pride problem.
21:10 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And Lincoln, all the stories I've heard is that he really did seem to be a pretty humble guy.
21:15 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And if that was the biggest difference, maybe that's one of them goes in the history books as one of America's greatest presidents and one of them, one of the history books as one of the most progressive presidents of all time.
21:27 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I found the full comment here, so after the sentence we should take heed to avoid the same pitfalls that goes on, even if something is the prevailing wisdom of the day by the most airy diet of scholars when it contradicts God's worth, we should not embrace it and that's so true, very, very good comment.
21:47 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, uh, I actually figured that Patrick also, uh, from the cave to the cross he responded on YouTube as well.
21:53 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So he wrote there, Troy triggered me with this statement of moving away from the Federal Reserve.
21:57 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's go to the stuff that really matters.
22:00 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So he really just started glanced over it and, uh, yeah, he wasn't enjoying that.
22:04 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Wilson deserved so much more dredging through the map to where tar and fetters should really go out of stock to commemorate a holiday of his ability to ruin the world and America in the way he did.
22:14 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Great show looking forward to more.
22:16 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
22:16 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think Patrick is a fellow Woodrow Wilson enthusiasts together with Troy or a bashing enthusiast.
22:23 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I actually saw another comment here by Jesse B.
22:26 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, very insightful on how someone can see him Christiane's with overall fruit does not reflect Jesus.
22:32 --> 22:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Same thoughts like you on Troy on Joep, maybe all watch and take heed.
22:36 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, you actually, you did a sermon as well on the David's senses and Joep there as well.
22:42 --> 22:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And kind of a redeeming moment.
22:46 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So in this yeah, so I actually forgot I mentioned Joe up in that episode.
22:49 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so recently I got to preach David census.
22:52 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You also preach the sermon right after me So that was pretty cool.
22:55 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We had a back to back there the Christian are not guys not that that's how we would have said it But anyway Yeah, so David has this big census, but he he when he begins the census and first Chronicles 21 I do
23:08 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He Joab begs him not to do it jobs like my lord, may your numbers be increased forever May you be multiplied please do not do this great thing and then when David does it he's like Joab I don't care I'm gonna do it anyway Joab it's like the Bible goes out of its way to let you know job is like really grieved by this and Joab Intentionally does not count
23:26 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Levi and Benjamin and it seems to be a Levi shouldn't be counted anyway.
23:30 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_00]: They're soldier.
23:31 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not supposed to be soldiers And he doesn't want God's holy people to die, but Benjamin is the one that's like Benjamin has been the enemy of Judah Throughout Joabs and Tyra life, he's literally assassinated Benjamin and I will commanders and stuff like that.
23:43 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Why wouldn't you want your enemies to feel the wrath of God that you think he was very clear?
23:47 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_00]: He thinks is gonna come
23:48 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_00]: and it seems to be that Benjamin has been so beaten down by the end of the book of judges and then rises back up with Saul but then goes through a civil war with David gets crushed again that it really is kind of like it's not an unfair question asked could Benjamin survive another one like can they take another hit from God and so maybe Joav is
24:08 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_00]: risking his own job or risking even his own life to protect his enemies.
24:12 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And that story, Joe had looks more like Christ, perhaps than David, the man after God's own heart.
24:18 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_00]: People hear that and they like to say, well, Joe has a murder.
24:20 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_00]: He's back guy.
24:20 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, well, David is also a murder.
24:22 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He used to Joe had to do that murder.
24:24 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But he is also a murder.
24:25 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're just going to wipe somebody out from murder.
24:27 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We got you're going to mose this David and, you know, Paul is improving a murder, too.
24:31 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So we got to have to step back from that and actually look at his actual, and I think Joe
24:37 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_00]: wrong king son.
24:39 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying job was a good guy.
24:41 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But in that story, he has a real interesting redemption kind of moment.
24:45 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's
24:47 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Joe, Woodrow does not have that.
24:48 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's the point here.
24:50 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so just to be clear, even Joe was better than we were real soon.
24:54 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the point we're trying to do.
24:56 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I made the point.
24:57 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't bring up Woodrow during the sermon.
25:00 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't come up much in the sermon.
25:01 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
25:01 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You should come up more.
25:03 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I got another sermon coming up.
25:04 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a free topic.
25:05 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. OK. One Pablo set commented on YouTube on our Rockefeller episode.
25:11 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: This is awesome.
25:12 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep going.
25:13 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_00]: One Pablo, I've good news.
25:14 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We did.
25:16 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_00]: and we will we and we can have God to do so we got keep going one you've got more ahead don't worry uh Charles Dicken Jared best 65 91 on YouTube says haven't finished yet but the point about a Christmas Carol is damning no pun intended well and especially considering it's massive influence as to the definitive tale of Christmas goodness without Christ.
25:38 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Dare, I love that you left that comment.
25:40 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You are kind of funny to me, not because of your comment, but because you didn't finish the episode, he stopped midway through to leave the comment.
25:46 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're not the only one who does that.
25:47 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot.
25:47 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We've had that come up before.
25:49 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've always just got kind of a little kick out of people who, like, I gotta say this right now.
25:53 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And then like, to me, I wouldn't leave a comment until I finished the episode.
25:57 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So keep doing a Jared.
25:58 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have no problem.
25:59 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You might be leaving a comment right now.
26:01 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You might have already left the comment on this episode, actually.
26:03 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Keep going, it's fine.
26:04 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do think the Christmas Carol
26:09 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I was like, I looked at that and I was like, you know, it is a completely, it's basically a crisis story, but it's called a Christmas Carol, like that is a really
26:18 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's symbolic if nothing else like kind of look at his face in my mind like it's he looks so good on the outside But when you think about it, where's there's no Jesus person?
26:26 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep Yeah, and that's that's where we landed on with with Dickens of course.
26:30 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a some more episode more episodes more comments here gentle gentle You've commented before.
26:37 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for joining in with us in the conversation you've comments.
26:42 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's keep up the great work enjoying the content and
26:45 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we also have Daniel Pabarkas.
26:47 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's the name I've also seen before.
26:49 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have some loyal commenters here.
26:51 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And I really love that actually.
26:53 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so much fun.
26:54 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed the conversation and great insight.
26:56 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Sadly, I'm unsure about Dickens at best.
26:59 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There seems to be an overarching emphasis on morality, slash works instead of faith.
27:04 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And
27:04 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's something that we really ran into as well with Dickens, especially also with the the book hero for his kids, like his version of the gospel, basically like the life of Jesus.
27:16 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there were some quotes there as well, that really pointed to words.
27:19 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you just live your life well, then that might just get you saved.
27:25 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's...
27:26 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not where I'm at.
27:28 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I said this on the episode, I'm actually kind of just singing about this now, but at the time, it sounded like, well, you wrote a story about Jesus to his kids.
27:34 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like a good thing, right?
27:36 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But now that I'm thinking about it, like, you could also see that as a negative, like, I don't like the Bible's version of Jesus.
27:43 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me make sure my kids get the version of Jesus.
27:45 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I would prefer by writing my own version of Jesus, you know?
27:49 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is kind of like, because I wouldn't, you think you're always doing that for his kids, like he wants something to know the Lord.
27:54 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you could also see it as a negative though, like I would never think to write a story of Jesus because I would assume the scripture, the living word of God would be what I wouldn't want my kids to know.
28:05 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that you want to give them a different version of that story or a different, it could be just, again, maybe because of really young.
28:11 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But I could kind of see, I could definitely see how you could also that kind of could be a negative as well.
28:15 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's, yes, I know, and actually it leads me to a, entirely different question, but I think these episodes, you know, they're a little bit open for us to talk about any topics.
28:24 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, really like, like, I don't know if you assume you have this in English, just while in America.
28:31 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the children's Bible, like you just have, you know, your condensed versions of the Bible and all those things.
28:37 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We're actually, um, we love them.
28:39 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some beautiful ones in Dutch that we really like, you know, with great pictures for the kids, great painting, great illustrations for them to really, you know, see the stories and joy to stories, but then, um, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you
28:50 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We're actually starting to know, especially with our youngest, where she's the only one that's still lunches at home because they're the ones that are in school and she gets out of school at 12 and then we read a different one that is actually like a top there by like it's like really basic it's like 20 sentences to a story pretty much and she's been around enough to you know here enough Bible stories and she every time we read much like all they left out so many things they left out this and they left out that
29:18 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So my question, actually, would be like, try how do you feel about children's battles?
29:21 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Because to me, I love them because it helps you introduce your kids to the stories.
29:26 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes,
29:28 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I really miss some essential parts and yeah, like that's that's my struggle with it a little bit.
29:33 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So I there are people who will we listen watch our show who, you know, they'll be very strict.
29:39 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Children should be in worship together and that's a big family, you know, you shouldn't even have Sunday school things like that.
29:44 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I used to be a children's pastor.
29:45 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it can be really good to reach children on their level because it less be honest, the the
29:53 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: A level of teaching the story of Joab, I just told you, I don't know that a five year old is picking up.
29:58 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've talked to many kids when they've been in fan, and we have times where they're all in the big service together.
30:04 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've had many, many conversations with my kids where like, I sat, I was polite, but I don't understand.
30:09 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't listen to them and they're saying anything today.
30:10 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not for me.
30:12 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not I'm young, I'm five, and four, whatever it was, and there was nothing coming down to them.
30:17 --> 30:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Even older kids, seven, eight, and nine can still sometimes go high, that was tough.
30:23 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, I can, I respect your decision if you want to do that.
30:26 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_00]: That's totally fine.
30:27 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also just don't have a problem with trying to reach a child at the AJR.
30:32 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And don't have a problem with trying to use a children's Bible using a young version of that story to reach people.
30:39 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it has to be with the awareness of maybe even telling the kid like this is not the entire story, but this is part of the story because I also teach Old Testament to ninth graders and every I mean there are so many stories where kids who have been raised in the church are looking at me like that's in the Bible.
30:55 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That what happened check them what are you know like things like that where they're just kind of like mouth dropping and so it I'm not is ninth grade the time when you need to have them fully up to date on all the terrible things happening in judges I'm not sure if that is when we teach it because it's on the schedule, but
31:10 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It, you know, I don't know.
31:11 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think I don't have a problem with it.
31:12 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's got actually, I did an episode long time ago on a guy who his wife like created children's Bible.
31:17 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, I know the guy invented children's Bible.
31:19 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I know because I was Googling it to make it his name.
31:22 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The children's Bible tradition goes all the way back to the 1100s.
31:25 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
31:25 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So it is a long and the first known children's Bible was by Peter Commuster, but he went by Petrus Commuster, because he's old.
31:33 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_00]: His story has Galastica 1170.
31:36 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a manuscript for university students, but it became popular for children, which I'm not really sure what that means.
31:40 --> 31:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't, doesn't bow well for the university.
31:43 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Martin Luther created a vernacular children, Christian children's Bible, and 1529, which I did not know that, also pretty cool.
31:50 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Another one came out in France that was very popular in 1670, and this is a long history of children's Bible going all the way back.
31:56 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So the guy I thought was a Princeton university who created his wife did create one, but she was by no means the first.
32:02 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a long history that goes very, very far back.
32:04 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so maybe to sort of finish this story arc a little bit here.
32:09 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not uncommon, maybe then the Charles Dickens did it.
32:13 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, yeah, I mean, there's something cool in there, but then in his case specifically for him to convey his theology the way he did, yeah.
32:23 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's definitely not the right way to use that skill and use that position that he had in this case.
32:31 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So that said, Jonas Bible's Christian or not, I think they're probably Christian.
32:35 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're good.
32:36 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we're good.
32:37 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got them.
32:37 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_01]: We, you know, we went off our script a little bit.
32:41 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Talk about, we did.
32:42 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_01]: One more thing.
32:43 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't let this go.
32:44 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: A children's Bible is also a 2020 dystopian novel written by American author Lydia Millett.
32:49 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_00]: because when I said, who wrote the children's Bible on Google?
32:52 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Google.
32:53 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, when I said who wrote the children's Bible, who wouldn't be immediately thinking of the Lydia Millett 2020 to soapy and novel?
33:01 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, come on.
33:02 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Listener, what's your favorite character from that book that we all definitely read Google?
33:07 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's obviously the only one we could have been thinking of.
33:11 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Google's got a Google throw.
33:12 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's got to be some kind of a gen that it's probably not interested.
33:15 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's definitely I know I know I just I just so funny to me that that like of course this is not nobody's okay.
33:22 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, Lydia, if you're a listener, you know, wait, your book is probably fine, but.
33:27 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know that.
33:29 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's read it first, or not.
33:31 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, okay, we had a comment from someone close to this as well here in the community, and then one actually was fun because it was a bit of a linguistic,
33:42 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Auditi as well because she commented on the Christmas Carol has these stories of the ghosts of Christmas past and she mentioned yeah but but there were spirits and there is a difference between the spirit and the ghost and me being a Dutchie I was very
33:59 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_01]: confused by that because we only have one word.
34:01 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So when we talk about the same way like we can say the Holy Ghost Holy Spirit, we only have one word for that.
34:07 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There's only one word for Ghost or Spirit.
34:10 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, is there a difference?
34:12 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But
34:14 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't really, I don't know who we ended up in that discussion, but it was just interesting to me just to learn first of all the linguistic part of it, where we, the word we have has the same route as go, so we say, Haste, which is very similar, as Troy can let's tell.
34:32 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we don't have a word for spirit, which was actually fascinating to me being a Dutchy like, oh yeah, we don't have a word.
34:39 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, is there a difference between a spirit and a ghost as far as you're concerned?
34:43 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: When you think of old hymns and stuff, they'll, or a creed, they'll say the Holy Ghost, and it's like, we all know they mean the Holy Spirit.
34:52 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_00]: If you come running to my house and you know, oh my gosh, I saw a ghost.
34:55 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to go ghost or spirit like you know, that is really it's the same ideas there.
35:00 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you come running to my house, I saw spirit.
35:01 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably not going to be like, well, at least it wasn't a ghost, but I do think technically they're probably is a difference, but I'm also not sure is that like a history.
35:10 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: linked something with the spreading already as common to communities.
35:13 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not sure if that's like a true linguistic like, is it really the same thing or is it like, or is it something that we've added kind of to it, like with our own with writing, like in the year of where, you know, Netflix is just getting right to launch all their Halloween stuff.
35:30 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all to all of that.
35:31 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Have we created now our own differences that probably weren't originally there?
35:37 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The answer is I'm not sure.
35:38 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_00]: When I, I will say, if you were to tell me ghost, I think ghost in the common vernacular tends to be like a dead person comes back from life.
35:46 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's not real.
35:48 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that if you encounter that you're encountering something demonic, so that would be a spirit.
35:52 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you say I encounter something spiritual or spirit, I'm thinking something more demonic.
35:56 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't know that makes sense.
35:58 --> 36:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing because I think the ghost is still demon, but
36:01 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_00]: In the common vernacular, somebody would not necessarily say, you know, there were plenty of non-Christian to say, I think it goes just like, you know what I mean, like, I saw my, so I was a ghost one, they're like, oh, that's creepy.
36:06 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, no, I was totally, it's, it's, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it
36:16 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know that there's a huge difference.
36:18 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing for me though is I go to Wikipedia and I so I look at ghosts of Christmas Carol, the first thing that comes up is ghost of Christmas past and it says the word ghost and then it says right here species ghost, which I think is funny that species is on Wikipedia right here, but then it down the bottom it says alias also known as spirit and so I'm kind of like, I don't think Wikipedia knows the difference either so yeah.
36:43 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, if you have any, if you have any other thoughts like that, your Matt, I will say I mentioned earlier music is not my strong point, and I'm willing to very confidently say neither is grammar.
36:54 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_01]: is not something I mean is anybody good at it.
36:56 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, language.
36:58 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I work at a high school and there are people who love talking about grammar.
37:01 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_00]: They they love it.
37:03 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Some grammar.
37:04 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_00]: The English teachers.
37:05 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_00]: They are they are grammatical.
37:06 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's just so I was as it was preparing.
37:10 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, man, I'm just pushing the button too many times as I was driving hours like, oh, I'm going to tell about you know what happened to my knee.
37:16 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the thing is, just to get very technical, I have a terror in my Patel attendant, which is a tenant that runs on the front of your knee, keeps the Patel in the place, and there's a small terror in there.
37:27 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm thinking, terror, T-A-T-E-A-R. Yeah.
37:32 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Spell the same as tier.
37:33 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like why I don't know why it's just come on English get it together I it's how did we become the world language when our spelling is just silly will it know right?
37:44 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I know this this is so and in Europe we have some of these jokes where like hey What's the language of heaven?
37:50 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's it's Dutch because it takes an eternity to learn or it's Hungarian because it takes an eternity That's funny to learn so there's a few of these languages.
37:57 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They're really like I think Dutch is up there because of that some of the
38:02 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_01]: and Gary is up there because it's like a unique language family and the same with finish.
38:06 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are like three really weird languages in Europe apparently.
38:11 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But I actually think English is the one.
38:12 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I think English is actually the weird one, but we all speak it.
38:16 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So we kind of, you know, that's like I think English is difficult to spell.
38:20 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the English is difficult necessarily to learn to talk.
38:24 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I know it is.
38:25 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But like so many people learned to talk it and then they grew with the grammatical details and spellings, but because of the way English is you don't have to speak it perfectly for people to understand it and I think that's probably one of the big reasons why English did so well and like people are all China's going to take over and I'm like
38:43 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: as someone who is live there, like you can't throw away, like if you mess up with Chinese, nobody will, they'll use no one will pretend that they'll all pretend they have no idea what you said, and it can be very frustrating.
38:54 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas English people will kind of lean and then go like, okay, I kind of figured out what you said.
38:57 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just move forward anyway.
38:59 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that not all languages have that necessarily going to go.
39:04 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
39:04 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there are some hard sounds in English, so every language does have sound.
39:09 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, Dutch, you've got like, go on over there, which is my weird days or not, he's just like mine is.
39:18 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, in Dutch, okay, where it's so off to, okay, Dutch and English, I feel like we're, we're rather languages because we both come from German French mixtures.
39:27 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You got one version of it and English got the other version of it.
39:32 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
39:33 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's probably a language that's why I'm filming at the night.
39:36 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure.
39:36 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is why my wife one day pointed out to me and she said Dutch kind of sounds like English if you played it backwards and I'm not saying does kind of a little bit though.
39:44 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I don't know.
39:46 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I just have to think about there's this joke, especially for I think it was
39:51 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It was actually a commercial on Dutch television and it was about like, I think a language go in there and it actually also poked a little bit of fun at the Germans, like, you know, burn Europe, we all poked fun at each other.
40:03 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So they had this thing where there was a guy sitting at like, I think like a lighthouse or some kind of like emergency situation for boats.
40:09 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So there is, you know, emergency call like SOS, SOS, we're sinking, we're sinking.
40:14 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the German guy replies,
40:17 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_01]: what are you thinking about?
40:20 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of the, because I want to say the CH, like thinking, yeah, that's one thing.
40:27 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where you know someone, like, actually, you know, speaks English really well or as like sort of assumed it as a second language.
40:35 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a few of these
40:37 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_01]: where I will immediately point at all your Dutch.
40:40 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you can hear like we struggle with saying happy birthday.
40:43 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like like I figured it out by now how to say this he age.
40:47 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of Dutch people will say a happy birthday.
40:51 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Like if you have an F there instead of a bunch.
40:53 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_00]: But it kind of goes to my point right because if you go up to something as a happy birthday, they're still going to be like, oh thanks man, right?
40:59 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to be like loser.
41:00 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not based births.
41:02 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_00]: day, which I have lived in multiple countries where if I walked up to them and said the equivalent of happy birthday, they would look at me and go, I have no idea what you just said.
41:09 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't possibly figure it out, and I'm like, couldn't you just, though, like there's a slight accent, but you could figure out when I was trying to say, okay, well, next episode English language is it Christian or not?
41:23 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we need to get to these two comments.
41:25 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: These two comments that we're about to read to you are a little more interesting in my opinion Randy and YouTube says why do you assume that the other thief on the cross could not also be saved.
41:37 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this one threw us off a little bit because we even if I recall mark even kind of checked in on the episode and we I never actually said that anything about the other people from the grass or whether they were saved or not is that correct.
41:50 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that's what I could find like I look through the transcript because
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm sorry, Troy.
41:57 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't actually watch our own episodes.
41:59 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Usually listen to them, because I do it in editing, you know, endlessly.
42:04 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I just can't anymore.
42:05 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to explain it in voice.
42:06 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Being here when we make them.
42:08 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like I've got it down.
42:10 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
42:11 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Same.
42:11 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So I enjoy making them.
42:13 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not necessarily enjoy listening to my own voice.
42:16 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm glad you all do like listening to our voices.
42:19 --> 42:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I look through the transcript and I like I couldn't even find it.
42:25 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So why did we assume even if we did if we if we did assume that, you know, let's just get this cleared up We don't know about the other thief on the cross.
42:36 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_01]: We have no evidence in the Bible that It said anything about this person being saved, but
42:42 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_01]: To me, it just sort of drew me back to what we say about all of these guys that we talk about and girls that we will talk about, you know, all the ones in season two, everyone that we will talk about on this show.
42:54 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, we never truly know because in the end, it's up to God and we never, we can't see the hearts of people.
43:01 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We can't, we don't know what happened in their last moments and it's in the end, it's up to God to judge.
43:07 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So if we did assume that the other thief could
43:13 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_01]: than we were wrong, we don't know, but we have, I think, enough evidence in the stories that we have in the Bible.
43:21 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no evidence, nothing pointing towards him getting saved and there is actually clear evidence of Jesus talking to the thief that was saved because he said, you will be with me in paradise today, still.
43:35 --> 43:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So try anything to add on that
43:40 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I only thing I would think is we actually kind of back and forth is if you never wanted to read a comment section, you could go read it.
43:47 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I did try to get more information from them and it was a very interesting conversation.
43:51 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Randy, if you're listening, I appreciate the interesting back and forth that I don't, I don't know, I don't know what was going on.
43:57 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_00]: This next one, S-sake, S-sake, S-sake, I don't.
44:02 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so there I need to, and this one, this one was really interesting.
44:08 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll read it.
44:09 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Charles Dickens was a sociopathic imposter and not the original author of a Christmas Carol.
44:15 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The original authors were a young American couple named Matthew and Abbey Whittier, Abbey was a Catholic mystic who respected and embraced authentic esoteric traditions including what we would call spiritualism.
44:25 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_00]: she was persecuted as a witch by mainstream Christians.
44:28 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_00]: All this spiritual power of a Christmas Carol came from her not from Dickens.
44:32 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: All he did was commercialize and largely secularize Matthew and Abbey's sacred novella into a ghost story to appeal to the masses so he could make quick cash.
44:40 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I proved this by completely transcribing Dickens handwritten manuscript and finding hidden underneath his redaction marks overwhelming evidence of Matthew and Abbey's original authorship.
44:49 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Charles Dickens was no Christian at all, but Abbey was more of a Christian than any of
44:58 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, you know, sorry, it's one of those things, you know, let's, let's be honest first.
45:07 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We've haven't researched it as much as this person did.
45:10 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I am willing to say, I have not seen the handwritten manuscript of a Christmas Carol with the overwhelming evidence.
45:19 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I'm so I did a quick search on this like, hey, you know, this person responded, you know, go through search engines like who are even Matthew and Abby withier.
45:32 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And I found a research paper written by Stephen Secularius and, you know, wait, Stephen's what?
45:41 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_01]: S. Sake.
45:42 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's him.
45:44 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's him.
45:45 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure he's found him.
45:48 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure I did as well.
45:49 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's even secularist.
45:50 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_01]: He wrote a paper and called Evidence that a Christmas Carol's originally written by Matthew Franklin with here an Abby Poin with your rather than by Charles Dickens.
45:59 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And he says also in this paper in the abstracted rights, I will set forth an attempt to confirm to a degree of certainty beyond the reasonable doubt doubt my conclusion that the original co-authors of a Christmas Carol were an American couple named Matthew and Abby Whittier.
46:14 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't had the chance to read it yet, the key takeaways, this is AI that made the key takeaways from this, Matthew and Abby with the year likely co-authored a Christmas Carol challenging Dickens authorship claims, Abby with your spiritual and literary influences, shaped your original narrative depth and moral themes, Dickens
46:34 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_01]: revisions diluted the original spirit to elements transforming the story into a secular ghost till forensic evidence suggests Dickens plagiarized from Matthew and Abby's earlier works as well, particularly the New Year's Bells, and Dickens public persona masked his social pathect rates revealed through personal correspondence and behavior.
46:55 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to read it now.
46:56 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I kind of want to read this paper.
47:00 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You, that that's actually, I mean, it really, it left all the juicy details and fine.
47:08 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: to say this is a pretty fringe theory is certain.
47:11 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we literally found the only author of this paper who happens to have a YouTube name that fits his also coming to the gym.
47:19 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I gotta say, Mr. Secularius, do you just spend all day like trolling on YouTube looking for Charles Dickens videos so that you can let people know about your theory?
47:29 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't disrespect it at all, but I'm just, I am curious, if that's what your hobby is.
47:39 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Outside of you, there's no evidence for this.
47:41 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So I can only go through your paper to find your evidence.
47:44 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've never seen the handwritten manuscript and I wouldn't know what that looks like.
47:47 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So I, you got me there.
47:50 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_00]: With that said,
47:52 --> 48:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not convinced that the Christians who persecuted her for being in a witch are wrong, though her version of it doesn't sound a lot better either.
48:02 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Neither of these versions sound great.
48:04 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the traditional Christmas Carol thought to be written by Charles Dickens is probably still true.
48:10 --> 48:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be too bold market.
48:12 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're going to go the other way.
48:13 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
48:16 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm just I'm just reading some more things here like I'm I'm seem so other other of his papers.
48:21 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_01]: He also has one where he says how messy frankly with your road to poetic precursors to the Raven by Edgar Ellen Poe.
48:29 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wasn't so Dickens is not the first these three wilders when I'm to fly.
48:37 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: a prolifically pilfered group of people.
48:40 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, it seems like everybody might have stolen a good story from that too.
48:46 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, actually, this is, here he goes.
48:48 --> 48:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, George Pickering Burnham was credited with the rack bigger or binder free and he says the true authorship.
48:55 --> 48:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So this man is, um, and actually it's mostly the way the years that
49:00 --> 49:07 [SPEAKER_00]: written the things that he, you know, then he goes have to clear is, do you have like a great grandma whose name might be something wittier?
49:07 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just, I got to know man, like what?
49:10 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Why this particular couple that no one, I don't think anyone has ever heard of, and why are you convinced that all of literature has been stolen from them?
49:17 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
49:18 --> 49:37 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
49:45 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Either this is true and this is like like a giant cover-up in the literary room.
49:49 --> 49:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You just literally are here.
49:51 --> 49:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is this is huge.
49:52 --> 49:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Or
49:53 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe to read it again and look at it again.
49:55 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just what I'm saying, maybe about it because we don't want to go into too much.
50:00 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I also see and that's I think maybe the last we should say about it.
50:05 --> 50:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Stephen is a lay researcher specializing in re-incarnation studies.
50:10 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think he's a richer.
50:13 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't know.
50:14 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't do this at all.
50:18 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we got it.
50:19 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we got to restart on this.
50:20 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I love it.
50:21 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's perfect.
50:22 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
50:23 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we like we don't want to make flies with us.
50:26 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say something.
50:27 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say something.
50:29 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:29 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That's nice.
50:32 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, everyone leave a comment.
50:34 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
50:35 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's your comment.
50:38 --> 50:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, it is that the is that whatever our episode is happens to be tied into an extremely intricate conspiracy and you happen to be an expert on reincarnation.
50:50 --> 50:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I might laugh a little, but I still want you to leave comment.
50:53 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not here to make fun of you.
50:55 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We, we've just broadcasted your theory to more people than it naturally would have been.
51:00 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And we appreciate you leaving.
51:01 --> 51:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I hope you leave more comments, Mr. Steven.
51:05 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You are welcome anytime.
51:06 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone is welcome to leave their comments.
51:08 --> 51:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But it kind of is, it reminds me of in the recent episode about Isaac Newton, where somebody was like, and now Israel has all the details.
51:14 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, yeah, some comments, I think
51:17 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_00]: are just interesting in a part of being online.
51:19 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't like, if you don't spend time online, if you don't make podcasts for eight years plus going, you don't see all the interesting, like, the average person skipsies.
51:29 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And they don't share them with you.
51:31 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I love them.
51:31 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_00]: They're my favorite, one of my favorite parts of being online is just the random things that come your way that.
51:36 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I never forget, Obelman, we did an episode on Charles Spurgeon for Levi thoughts, and I, at this moment, comments underneath, it's just like, I know this isn't the real Charles Spurgeon, because you didn't have, like, we didn't recording devices weren't around to catch his voice.
51:50 --> 51:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I'm like, yeah, I know we think the speaker in the episode, like, we didn't claim to have a time machine or something.
51:56 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, oh, we were sorry about that already.
51:58 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_00]: You got me there.
51:58 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, she had a really good attitude about it, but I just, I love, I love comments.
52:02 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I love people.
52:03 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the things that people come up with.
52:05 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: and I will say this of all the reasons to not vote for Charles Dickens being a Christian.
52:11 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I was not expecting the reincarnationist to jump in and tell us that it's because he stole it all from a mystic witch.
52:19 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
52:26 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
52:27 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
52:28 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, how do we earn a shackle ten from here.
52:31 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just do it.
52:31 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_00]: We just do earn a shackle ten.
52:33 --> 52:37 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, plus Evans said on YouTube, looking forward to this one.
52:37 --> 52:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I really like reading endurance shackle ten's incredible voyage.
52:40 --> 52:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, plus for reading.
52:42 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_00]: for reading the book and in jumping in with that comment once again he commented before so i don't know he looked forward to listening to it but did it live up to his expectations i i can never heard back from a little bit i don't know oh dear and uh it comes back around again
52:58 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Great episode guys.
52:58 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I really appreciate Mark's point that while the words evidence for Shackleton as far as the actions are incredibly strong, Lansing's book on the endurance is a personal favorite.
53:07 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, if you want to know why elephant island got his name, pull it up on the Google Maps and tell me that doesn't look like a startled elephant from a Disney movie.
53:14 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I have done this since he's completely correct.
53:16 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It does look like a startled elephant from a Disney movie like a dumbbell or something.
53:20 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really cute.
53:22 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Great name for an island.
53:23 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_00]: You can have an island.
53:25 --> 53:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure.
53:26 --> 53:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure Mark.
53:27 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I'm going to call your coast from another podcast there.
53:29 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's okay.
53:29 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you're going to put that in the screen shot or something like that or if you can Google it, but you will find that elephant island definitely looks like that.
53:45 --> 53:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, definitely.
53:46 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_01]: A frequent commenter of the show, my wife.
53:49 --> 53:52 [SPEAKER_01]: She loves listening to it, but she also loves discussing with me.
53:54 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's great fun.
53:55 --> 54:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we shared before, even our kids jumping in on the Mozart one with the sister and everything.
54:00 --> 54:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, got some great comments out of that as well.
54:03 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we were talking about Sheckleton.
54:06 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And
54:07 --> 54:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It was interesting, especially if you compare for example Sheckleton to a Dickens, where Dickens says he's a Christian and, you know, he's trying to do some things that look Christian, you're right, so book first kids, all those things, and with Sheckleton we, it's almost the opposite, like, doesn't say he's a Christian, we don't see many things, like it was like pretty last minute even that we found some things are like, oh wait, there was actually, you know,
54:35 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, of course, the people that went to the wailing post to get rescuers to get the rest of the crew.
54:45 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_01]: They had this whole experience with like an extra person was there and this whole thing.
54:51 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she said, but how does this work?
54:53 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're pretty harsh on Dickens.
54:55 --> 55:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we went pretty, we went after him a little bit for his beliefs and the way he put it to paper.
55:01 --> 55:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you go pretty easy on Sheckleton, even not just on the Christian part that necessarily but also you know you're really hard on Dickens for the affair or the you know a legit but obvious affair and then on Sheckleton with the alcoholism you don't really, you know, you just kind of glance over it like and you know I had to think about this so the way I
55:26 --> 55:29 [SPEAKER_01]: The way I said it is, I think it's actually true.
55:29 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we were a little bit maybe harsh on one, harsh on the one than the other, but it's also for me it has to do it if a person like, and for me they're through examples in this season that we did, there's Newton and there's Dickens.
55:41 --> 55:46 [SPEAKER_01]: When they say on the one hand that they're Christian, but then they start spouting obvious heresies.
55:46 --> 55:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, I think that is a bigger deal because you're actively,
55:53 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_01]: dragging people down with you pretty much and, you know, with the Sheckleton, he doesn't say he's a Christian, he doesn't like, you know, say, okay, I'm a Christian, so look at me, it is how you should live your life.
56:04 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We're here's my, you know, theology, but he shows a lot of things where I'm like, yeah, and I think that's actually where I landed on the Sheckleton, like I want him to be like the way he's, he's living his life apart from the alkalism, I want to say that one, so it's, it's, he seemed like a pretty stand-up guy.
56:21 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I like you think.
56:23 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, I would throw an I agree with that.
56:25 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and he clearly, he has a great heart for his, his crew.
56:28 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_00]: He went and did amazing things.
56:30 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He had a lot of perseverance.
56:33 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I also think if you, I like James 31, you know, those who are teachers of the law will be, you know, not just a lot, but then we'll be the teachers will be judged with a stricter guy like you do hold your pastor.
56:44 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_00]: to a higher standard than the recent convert, that just came suddenly through the doors, right?
56:49 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And we even know that we hold the pastor to a higher standard than the regular cumbers, but they're for years, but he's just, you know, he's an innocent, like an average guy, but you do know that you expect your pastor to be above reproach.
57:01 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_00]: People who are putting themselves out there into the community saying, I'm writing a book about Jesus, the teach people, how to be, that is putting yourself out there for a little bit more,
57:12 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Stronger scrutiny and then the other thing I would say to is I do try to put myself in the shoes of people What is their culture like?
57:19 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, or no chocolate tin was drinking Just like every other sailor at that time.
57:24 --> 57:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean not not everyone.
57:25 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there were some good Christian sailors But no lot of them were drinking right like we know that people who have certain jaw your soldiers Who go to war tend to be more likely to say some bad words and even the Christian ones
57:42 --> 57:43 [SPEAKER_00]: might get caught up in some of that too.
57:43 --> 57:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I going, you know what I'm saying?
57:44 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That's different to me than somebody who's sitting in the ivory tower who's, you know, living a, I do judge you based on where you are in sailors, especially back then.
57:57 --> 58:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they really truly never knew if that vessel was coming back.
58:00 --> 58:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's somewhat true today, but 99% of vessels come back.
58:04 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It really wasn't that way back then, and it's certainly not for the Arctic explorers.
58:08 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They were really throwing everything they got, so they tended to be around the rough and tough kind of people who would sign up for that kind of job.
58:15 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you tended to pick up some of those mannerisms and stuff too.
58:19 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, in the same way that I would look at a guy who is a, you know, 30-year veteran on the force or something like that, a police officer who has throughout his career, you know, stopped and dealt with suicide, saved it.
58:30 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to just talk, joke, act a little bit different than the rest of us, and I'm no, that's between, to me, I really feel like I'm like, that's kind of between you and God.
58:39 --> 58:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't go through those things you went through that hardened you like that.
58:43 --> 58:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a doctor who is seeing patient after patient die in the hospital is going to have probably make more jokes about death than you and I would be comfortable with, right?
58:52 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But if they don't, how are they going to get through every shift because they go through, they see death up close to personal, whereas we're seeing it, you know, here and there.
59:03 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So I put myself in the shoes of a shackleton and I go, okay, he was drinking every sailor back then was drinking all the time into the degree when you're going to the Arctic that alcohol is probably more warm in for you than I water is right like this is what they do.
59:18 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that mean it's okay?
59:20 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: No, sin is bad, and we don't want to send it being addicted to alcohol, of course it's bad.
59:24 --> 59:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also will judge sins on every sin will take you from Christ.
59:27 --> 59:34 [SPEAKER_00]: If you say in your, as the Lord said in the center of the mouth, if you say, you fool in your head, you are worthy of the fires of hell because you've called something made in the image of God.
59:34 --> 59:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Fool.
59:35 --> 59:39 [SPEAKER_00]: But also, like the Lord can tell the difference between one sin and the other.
59:39 --> 59:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Mark would be very upset with me if I just out of nowhere slapped him.
59:42 --> 59:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think he'd be more upset if I tried to murder him and succeed it.
59:47 --> 59:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, okay, I was going to clarify that so that would be there would not be equivalent right and I would say a person would be very upset if their spouse came stumbling and super drunk and again But I think they would be more upset if they cheated.
59:59 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know for sure, maybe you wouldn't but I do think there are varying degrees and I do think that
01:00:06 --> 01:00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Most people would consider probably adultery as a higher level of incidentally like a higher level of break of trust and sin then alcoholism not that that diminishes the sin that alcoholism is it does and certainly by the way, these two sins can easily go hand in hand of course.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So which tackle ten I'm not trying to say, oh, that's not a big deal this I I'm just trying to say what shackle ten was up against speed.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot harder than I think what Dickens was up against.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He was sitting in comfortable at home, and he gave himself over to sin from a place of comfort.
01:00:37 --> 01:00:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas Chakleton was literally saving lives, and he was in a place where temptation was far more rampant in that kind of world, but he still managed just to be a standout, pretty awesome guy.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We like people like Charles Dickens books, but I don't know many people who want to grow up to be like Charles Dickens the person.
01:00:56 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas even, I mean, who doesn't?
01:01:00 --> 01:01:05 [SPEAKER_00]: There's probably a lot of girls who don't, but like you, what guy doesn't want to have it if want to be able to be an artist shackled.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And at least shake his hand.
01:01:07 --> 01:01:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:01:08 --> 01:01:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And that could be just me hero worshiping.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And I could, I will willing to say that I'm just impressed with somebody who can climb a Mount Everest who can go to the Arctic.
01:01:17 --> 01:01:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So like those things are impressive to me.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe I'm giving him a pass.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I should not because of that.
01:01:22 --> 01:01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And that
01:01:23 --> 01:01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And that will color things.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: What somebody does something truly amazing.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I think another example that would be Mozart, we did go easier, I think.
01:01:28 --> 01:01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't not think he in Mozart was safe, but it was a much more of a restful.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And we did go a lot easier on him, partially because I think what you were saying too, Mark.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Mozart never considered it.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like never put himself out there as a giant massive Christian.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He just made some works that happened to include church elements and themes.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We had a lot.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:48 [SPEAKER_00]: We were going easier on him, I think, too than we were on Dickens.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think that one's clear for me, I'm still, you know, I understand what you're saying about, you know, different, different sins, different situations.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I understand, and I think, I think what for me, the thing I want to take away is that.
01:02:09 --> 01:02:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we all need salvation.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's that's clear.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_01]: We all need God's grace and nothing more than nothing less.
01:02:16 --> 01:02:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's what we, that's what it's all about.
01:02:19 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, sin is sin, you know, it's the Bible is pretty clear.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: If you sinned on one point of law, you sinned against the whole law.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think just for me to take away that I would would take out of it is like,
01:02:36 --> 01:02:44 [SPEAKER_01]: We, of course, are called to, you know, call our brothers and sisters to, you know, to the Lord.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And when we see them straying, we can, we can call them at the end.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also our own responsibility in the situations that we are in to make the right choices.
01:02:52 --> 01:02:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I do agree with you where Dickens was doing it from a very different place, in a very different situation where, you know,
01:03:01 --> 01:03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a different situation in checklists and does one make it better or worse.
01:03:06 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to join you in that one, but But I do think and I actually stem by that part where we say like, I will be more harsh on a person that's saying they are Christian, but then
01:03:19 --> 01:03:28 [SPEAKER_01]: not lift that out or not, you know, then actually say things that I really cannot agree with, then a person that does not say necessarily is a Christian.
01:03:28 --> 01:03:34 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just living his life as a, you know, Arctic explorer or as a businessman or as, you know, what else?
01:03:34 --> 01:03:41 [SPEAKER_01]: If we got, you know, as a U.S. president, no, sorry, not going back to me there again, not going there again.
01:03:41 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I will go,
01:03:43 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit easier on those people and would be more like looking for kind of hints of okay what does it maybe it's kind of like what's the starting point you know with his shekelson you go like we don't know there's not much there oh we see things oh we you know this is actually interesting fascinating okay yeah he goes out of his way to save this Bible verse that's interesting to me he he mentioned is feeling another presence in the boat and he he's clearly alluding to god
01:04:07 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: interesting to me like he's he's definitely putting out hints that he's a Christian now could I make now another counter argument you can make I think it's well than why is he being so secrets yeah when like this a Christian say I'm a Christian right so perfect that's I think a completely different side of the argument that is very valid like I
01:04:25 --> 01:04:31 [SPEAKER_00]: if you, if you get to the end of your life and nobody can tell whether you're a Christian, you've always just been leaving like little hints of it.
01:04:31 --> 01:04:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That is another completely different conversation to have.
01:04:33 --> 01:04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I feel, I feel maybe it's like a trajectory thing.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel with Shekleton in the way I read his story the way we did the research.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It felt like there was sort of an upward trajectory towards yes, whereas with a Dickens, it kind of went the other way around.
01:04:46 --> 01:04:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was sort of like a downward trajectory like,
01:04:49 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll come on, you know, and you just sort of end up in this place like, oh, you know, that was not dead.
01:04:57 --> 01:04:59 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so disappointing.
01:04:59 --> 01:05:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe maybe why maybe that's also why the tone maybe.
01:05:02 --> 01:05:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good point.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:06 [SPEAKER_00]: As we read more into Ernest Sockle time, we're finding things.
01:05:06 --> 01:05:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know what?
01:05:07 --> 01:05:09 [SPEAKER_00]: There are little scraps and hints here.
01:05:09 --> 01:05:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he just liked the book of Joe.
01:05:10 --> 01:05:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, but there is evidence of something, right?
01:05:13 --> 01:05:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas with Dickens, it was like, okay, he read a Christmas carefully.
01:05:15 --> 01:05:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It really was like a
01:05:17 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_00]: like at the more you read, the more you were disappointing, Dickens which then kind of comes over the episode when you record it and you're like, yeah, you know, first I was like, gyro and a Christmas Carol, but then somebody pointed out there's no Jesus and a Christmas Carol and on and on it goes and you just feel kind of depressed about it and so that I'm certain effects it too.
01:05:35 --> 01:05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's just some reasons why and I will say I do think I'm willing to also throw in, I'm a human.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
01:05:41 --> 01:05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We're two humans trying to do this with people who are long dead.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have our own personal biases and idea and trying and even attempts to not have a bias, we're going to be a little bit of that too.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're right, we will probably be there will probably be times if you're looking for us to be like, ah, you had to hit a critical standard this time you went easy on this person.
01:05:59 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That time they'll probably be more of those in the future like that's going to be I think a natural part of it, which is why feedback comments help level us out as well, where you can say.
01:06:09 --> 01:06:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, man, that you didn't hit him as hard as you should have, and I think that's good.
01:06:12 --> 01:06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So it keeps us from being the final say on this show on it.
01:06:17 --> 01:06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: agreed.
01:06:18 --> 01:06:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We have two more comments, I think.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, wrap them up here.
01:06:21 --> 01:06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: These are apple podcast reviews.
01:06:22 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Please leave apple podcast reviews.
01:06:24 --> 01:06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Supposedly apple will bump you up in the feed the more apple podcast reviews you have.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's a very good thing.
01:06:30 --> 01:06:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Plus my personal show, Revive Thoughts has like 220 with a 4.9 out of 5 and at least this show has like 180 or something like that.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have Christian or not, it's like nine or 10 with, I would say like a four point.
01:06:46 --> 01:06:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what to do.
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're way behind.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:50 [SPEAKER_00]: We got to catch up with our other shows in the studio.
01:06:50 --> 01:06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We just started, but we did, we did.
01:06:51 --> 01:07:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But we need to get more people to, to, to, to get on these so that we can, so if you can leave us the review, if you can drop five stars, hopefully it doesn't, you know, it doesn't wear you out too much, but it would be appreciated.
01:07:02 --> 01:07:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And it does help us out.
01:07:03 --> 01:07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So here are two of these that we have right now.
01:07:05 --> 01:07:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why.
01:07:07 --> 01:07:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:07:07 --> 01:07:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So here is two of these that we got in here just now.
01:07:11 --> 01:07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: desert dude for Jesus says intriguing but concerning at times for this four-star review
01:07:17 --> 01:07:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I've loved your interesting characters and in-depth dives and the various public figures lives.
01:07:22 --> 01:07:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys share a lot of things I didn't know in history.
01:07:24 --> 01:07:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I think my one reservation would be some of the seening positive views on violence you share.
01:07:28 --> 01:07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, the enthusiasm shared on Francis' strength, thinking burning down forts and florida and killing folks in them is concerning.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there is similar enthusiasm for violence in other episodes.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I understand it's kind of a guy, societal, cultural, norm, but wonder if it embodies Christ whom this show is centered around, otherwise great show brothers, I didn't them.
01:07:46 --> 01:08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: loved her is that by the way said in the means i believe that they edit they came back and edited there by their episode uh review added in them loved your ending discussion at the end of drink i'll chime in with that Jesus did encourage the faith of the roman centurion but directly challenge Peter for drawing a sword against an enemy those delivered by the sword dive by the sword so i've been curious if leas followers would want to more closely mirror a disciple or a soldier a faith
01:08:07 --> 01:08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, my understanding, and maybe you can do an episode on this as historians, we are not historians, we're appreciateers of history though, early followers in the first couple centuries after Jesus refrained from being soldiers.
01:08:19 --> 01:08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Mark, give me your thoughts.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Just let me start from the top, so thank you for lovingly showing the interesting characters.
01:08:26 --> 01:08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have more for you in the second season as well.
01:08:30 --> 01:08:34 [SPEAKER_01]: About the reservation about a seaming positive view points on the violence.
01:08:36 --> 01:08:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know,
01:08:38 --> 01:08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: We decided and Troy and I as well, you know, I think like 50% of this whole podcast was built on us just sort of riffing during lunches and just having fun, you know, making jokes about things and that's kind of, you know, we like making jokes about things.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But I want to be clear if we, we offended anybody here about saying, you know, we want to glorify violence or anything of those things.
01:09:08 --> 01:09:24 [SPEAKER_00]: people dying or a friend's straight killing folks it was a very different vibe than I thought we were going no we are all about have you not burned down a fort or two their mark it's been a while it's been a while okay well yeah you've got to get one it changed I've changed okay everyone every young man should
01:09:27 --> 01:09:28 [SPEAKER_01]: That this is exactly the problem, Troy.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:33 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what this man is talking about or yeah, desert dude.
01:09:33 --> 01:09:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm willing to say in love and increase.
01:09:34 --> 01:09:39 [SPEAKER_00]: If somebody listens to our show and the message to get from it is I need to burn out of Spanish, Armada.
01:09:40 --> 01:09:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, look, I'm just saying, it is an interesting vibe, but I will say, if I can throw in, yes, we don't, we don't try to go, I don't want the Christians to be violent today.
01:09:49 --> 01:09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that this works, I don't, but am I willing to say that at no point in history?
01:09:54 --> 01:09:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think probably the perfect example was our first episode on Charlemagne there.
01:09:58 --> 01:10:02 [SPEAKER_00]: um how would he have created a safe country without violence?
01:10:02 --> 01:10:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you could maybe he could genuinely pray hard enough and the monks were certainly trying that, but they were getting rated by the Vikings pretty regularly.
01:10:10 --> 01:10:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Like was there not a place for violence to keep in France safe?
01:10:14 --> 01:10:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there not a time when it is...
01:10:17 --> 01:10:22 [SPEAKER_00]: required of Christians to pick up arms to protect themselves with the case of France's straight.
01:10:23 --> 01:10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was obviously going overboard.
01:10:24 --> 01:10:30 [SPEAKER_00]: He was also a soldier of war for hire and I even went back on our feedback episodes and said, I do think I went too easy on him.
01:10:30 --> 01:10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I just think pirates are kind of cool in the fantastic story sense.
01:10:34 --> 01:10:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So that probably was painting it a little bit.
01:10:36 --> 01:10:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm willing to admit.
01:10:37 --> 01:10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But I will also say too.
01:10:38 --> 01:10:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We have soldiers today.
01:10:39 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: We do
01:10:41 --> 01:10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I look at a Bible and you can say, well, Jesus, you know, wanted Peter not to cut off a sword, cut off the ear, but that was during a very specific moment where they were resting in for the crucifixion.
01:10:50 --> 01:10:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus this day now is the time to buy swords.
01:10:52 --> 01:10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we go back a thousand years, David's mighty men are celebrated for their incredible military successes.
01:11:00 --> 01:11:19 [SPEAKER_00]: like I I guess I would say I did I am not a pacifist and I don't know that although Christ has called us to love our enemies I also don't think that means that there that there should never be a Christian soldier and I don't see Paul who uses the metaphor of a soldier and I don't see anywhere in the text or scriptures where
01:11:20 --> 01:11:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Soldiers are specifically condemned as a profession, or anything like that.
01:11:24 --> 01:11:27 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the room of 13 says the government does not bear the sword in vain.
01:11:27 --> 01:11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's just for police work.
01:11:29 --> 01:11:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that would have also been considered a soldier's duty as well.
01:11:33 --> 01:11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't necessarily
01:11:36 --> 01:11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to glorify violence, but I also don't want to put people who do a job.
01:11:40 --> 01:11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: That's very hard that many of us would not want to do being a soldier into a position where we somehow think we're better Christians than them because we don't do that.
01:11:48 --> 01:11:50 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I think many of them do really hard jobs.
01:11:50 --> 01:11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't want to do.
01:11:51 --> 01:11:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, I don't, I don't know.
01:11:54 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably where I get that big feeling is like, I don't want to...
01:11:57 --> 01:11:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say, oh yeah, killing super awesome.
01:11:59 --> 01:12:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We should all get a fork burn down.
01:12:00 --> 01:12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I did just say that was a joke.
01:12:01 --> 01:12:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You knew that.
01:12:03 --> 01:12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also don't want to put people who have the profession of soldiers into a place where, oh, well, that's kind of somehow less biblical than other possessions when I don't see that in the Bible as less biblical.
01:12:12 --> 01:12:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So if the Bible is not saying that, I'm certainly not going to say that either.
01:12:16 --> 01:12:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think even that's what we, like you said, he references that end discussion at the end of Drake and we continue that discussion in the common episode like, yeah, it's a complicated thing also because the time has changed like, like, you know, we don't really go crusading anymore even though according to Troy every young man should one time have that a crusade.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't got at least one crusade any young man.
01:12:41 --> 01:12:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's what are you what are you even doing?
01:12:42 --> 01:12:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Come on play your favorite symphony riff.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know while reciting your poem on the crusade while also bashing woodware will say it's a lot of work young men but you got it all do all of them to be to be a sorrowful boy you're putting too much pressure on the young men of these days.
01:12:59 --> 01:13:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But we struggled with it as well because it's also a different era like, you know, it's not the time anymore where this is this is happening, but I was reading a reading a book recently and it wasn't necessarily about this, but it also really described some things about, you know, the England and like the 1600s early 1700s like
01:13:21 --> 01:13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of stuff was happening, you know, transitioning from Catholicism to Protestantism and, you know, with Anglicistsism mixed in there and the number of people that weren't happy with that, you know, there was blood being shed there as well, you know, even even in the name, in the name of the Lord on both sides.
01:13:39 --> 01:13:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's, it's just something that we're really, it's really foreign to me at least and foreign to us, I think.
01:13:46 --> 01:13:56 [SPEAKER_01]: really interesting episode on this that the trodde it was about the unrefined thoughts was about the night's Templar.
01:13:56 --> 01:14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And you even start with this whole idea of the warrior monks that lived like in Egypt and those regions, it's just so foreign to us.
01:14:06 --> 01:14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, in and I pointed out in those episodes, those warrior monks are oftentimes why we have many of the manuscripts and Evidence is the like a lot of the archeological evidence that we have for the Bible and so many things did not come from Europe because
01:14:22 --> 01:14:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Those people were rated by Vikings on a regular basis and their, you know, their stuff was destroyed.
01:14:27 --> 01:14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But the warrior, these warrior-ish monks that lived in the Middle East that lived in Egypt that defended themselves when they were attacked.
01:14:34 --> 01:14:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That kept those things as treasures.
01:14:36 --> 01:14:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we have great awesome archaeological evidence.
01:14:40 --> 01:14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And you might say, well, as archaeological evidence worth the souls they killed that rated them, I mean, I'm going to police officer arrest a bank robber and, you know, a shootout goes down people do die.
01:14:48 --> 01:14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Like people do
01:14:49 --> 01:15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes lose their lives and that is something that happens, but I at least from an archeological perspective I'm quite grateful for those warrior monks who thought I would rather protect these items I would rather protect my people's lives than just give up and over in Europe It was much more of a like we need to be pacifist lay arms down But that was really hard on the people and I don't I Guess I'm not gonna say that the people in Europe who were doing that were bad I'm just not gonna say that the warrior monks themselves were also bad if you're dealing with people in times that we don't recognize them Let me give you an example
01:15:19 --> 01:15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But they might be relevant to it.
01:15:21 --> 01:15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We look at Francis Drake in what he did.
01:15:23 --> 01:15:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He burnt down a city as wrong.
01:15:24 --> 01:15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's go fast forward to World War II, the United States allies, many bombing campaigns across Germany.
01:15:32 --> 01:15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they tried to hit factories and places that were, but obviously they hit many houses and homes that weren't just war spots.
01:15:41 --> 01:15:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the nature of the war.
01:15:44 --> 01:15:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Francis Drake is attacking and burning out of village, but he's actually on the front lines with the sword at any point.
01:15:49 --> 01:15:52 [SPEAKER_00]: He can be stabbed and killed and he's he's a part of it.
01:15:52 --> 01:15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's in the back.
01:15:53 --> 01:15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that really, you know what I'm saying?
01:15:56 --> 01:16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Like is that Francis Drake might look up with the fighter bombers or doing it going?
01:16:00 --> 01:16:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the real un-Christian thing to do.
01:16:02 --> 01:16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: They are not even in the front line.
01:16:04 --> 01:16:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're dropping bonds from far away and leaving.
01:16:06 --> 01:16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't even point.
01:16:07 --> 01:16:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm having to do this by hand like I'm actually having to put my life on the line to fight a battle.
01:16:12 --> 01:16:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Those guys turn around and fly and obviously some bombers to get shot down.
01:16:15 --> 01:16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But those guys can do this all day long blowing up plenty of people and somehow that's not.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
01:16:22 --> 01:16:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Like from his perspective, he might look at the way we conduct warfare.
01:16:26 --> 01:16:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So the truth, using drones and using robots.
01:16:30 --> 01:16:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He might look at that and go that's horrifying.
01:16:32 --> 01:16:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We had to put our lives on the line courageously and we had to you know Use the sword and we got to know the guy who we were stabbing and What you guys do it could to be from his perspective might be the really horrifying thing
01:16:45 --> 01:16:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I don't think you're going to get an answer like a clear answer for us, but I do agree with you throw what you say like the same way we can, you know, judge the the pacifist Europeans of the era that you described or the warrior monks.
01:16:58 --> 01:17:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, this is a good maybe requires more
01:17:03 --> 01:17:06 [SPEAKER_01]: War is a study of God's words, more conversation.
01:17:06 --> 01:17:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just glad to be part of that.
01:17:07 --> 01:17:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Start the conversation.
01:17:09 --> 01:17:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And it will come up again.
01:17:09 --> 01:17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And let my final passing word on this is a, because it came up both the times and seasons.
01:17:13 --> 01:17:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, it for me.
01:17:14 --> 01:17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, I put myself in other people's shoes.
01:17:16 --> 01:17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I just have a hard time judging people who are being attacked.
01:17:20 --> 01:17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: were in or as someone who has not lived through those kinds of words.
01:17:24 --> 01:17:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It is really difficult for me to tell somebody, here's the exact Christian thing you should do when barbarians, Vikings, soldiers, armadas, or whatever attacking you.
01:17:33 --> 01:17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We've never, like, I don't very few people alive have lived through those kinds of experiences.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that we can't judge right or wrong unless we go through those experiences.
01:17:42 --> 01:17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But war is such a different human experience.
01:17:47 --> 01:17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: that I just think it's very easy to say in peace time.
01:17:49 --> 01:17:50 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what you should do.
01:17:51 --> 01:18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you have to go through more, I do think it's just a much harder thing to be able to say, this is right, or wrong, killing civilians and stuff like that, generally speaking.
01:18:00 --> 01:18:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I did change my opinion on Francis Drake.
01:18:02 --> 01:18:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, I really didn't like that one part.
01:18:05 --> 01:18:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But he was doing something that was coming.
01:18:06 --> 01:18:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Next comment.
01:18:07 --> 01:18:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go ahead and read the next one.
01:18:09 --> 01:18:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is the last comment.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have for today.
01:18:13 --> 01:18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Also on Apple Comments, a 5 star review by SRM Writer, unique and refreshing show, really like what you're doing on this podcast.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a little hesitant at first, but once I began listening, I've enjoyed the history and I like thinking through the complexities in evaluating in brackets.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:33 [SPEAKER_01]: These individual spiritual lives, or no, that's not brackets.
01:18:33 --> 01:18:33 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see in quotes.
01:18:33 --> 01:18:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Quotes are in quotes, so a quote unquote, evaluating these individual spiritual lives.
01:18:40 --> 01:18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Rather than feeling quote unquote judgemental, I'm learning to look at their life through the historical context.
01:18:47 --> 01:19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to I would not want to I would not want someone to open certain chapters of my book of life and make a determination at that point I'm glad God knows the whole story up to the last breath doing a great job can't wait to hear more So yeah, I think this is actually a really good comment to to close the season one on because
01:19:08 --> 01:19:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're capturing what we hope that we're doing here.
01:19:11 --> 01:19:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to be judgmental or evaluating these people.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We actually just want to look like we said.
01:19:18 --> 01:19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: We just said this whole discussion by the violence.
01:19:19 --> 01:19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to look at the complexities and we want to talk about this.
01:19:24 --> 01:19:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, we don't, we can give a final answer on most of you.
01:19:28 --> 01:19:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she's looking back like we should have actually done a recap.
01:19:31 --> 01:19:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what do we even answer on all of them?
01:19:32 --> 01:19:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't drink.
01:19:34 --> 01:19:39 [SPEAKER_01]: We even, there were maybe a few where we landed on, was there a definite gesture in there?
01:19:39 --> 01:19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to think, I mean, for Charlemagne, we're like, Charlemagne was a pretty strong piece.
01:19:45 --> 01:19:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I give in his era.
01:19:46 --> 01:19:49 [SPEAKER_00]: He seems a lot more Christian than a lot of guys.
01:19:50 --> 01:19:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely definitely had more guesses than Charlemagne though.
01:19:53 --> 01:19:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm trying to, I mean, we kind of forgot what we even did, you know.
01:19:57 --> 01:20:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I really didn't see as many problems with John Rockefeller as I felt like I was supposed to like for all the hate that John Rockefeller gets and I did as somebody kind of tell me in person.
01:20:07 --> 01:20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They were like, well, look, you know, you know, you could make the episode, but John Rockefeller sound like, well, someone gives enough money.
01:20:13 --> 01:20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They're a Christian.
01:20:13 --> 01:20:16 [SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't the message, but he was a Sunday school teacher for many years.
01:20:17 --> 01:20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I assumed that it way before he became Mr. Rich guy.
01:20:20 --> 01:20:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I assumed that that church was vetting him and you know, wasn't just letting him teach her so you can stuff like that.
01:20:26 --> 01:20:28 [SPEAKER_00]: with my assumption that his church was doing a good job.
01:20:28 --> 01:20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I look at how he used his money as a businessman.
01:20:31 --> 01:20:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would want a businessman to do.
01:20:33 --> 01:20:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I just had a hard time.
01:20:34 --> 01:20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem in John Rockefeller was there was never like there's no big sermon where he says, I love Jesus.
01:20:39 --> 01:20:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I repent to him.
01:20:40 --> 01:20:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But he was in a preacher.
01:20:42 --> 01:20:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So like of course, and the degree he does have a lot of notes and he points to God and all of it.
01:20:46 --> 01:20:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, it's hard to I can't find a preacher's evidence for a non-preacher if that makes sense.
01:20:53 --> 01:21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So I found the list of the people that we did, and actually the interesting thing is what I'm realizing as you're saying is about Rockefeller as well.
01:21:01 --> 01:21:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty obvious that none of them said like, hey, here's my full confession of faith.
01:21:06 --> 01:21:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, except for a few, like Isaac Newton.
01:21:10 --> 01:21:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Charles Dickens.
01:21:11 --> 01:21:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So the ones that actually did say that ones that actually wrote books and actually wrote, you know, all these these things like with Newton.
01:21:19 --> 01:21:24 [SPEAKER_01]: One person even come like he wrote more in the scriptures than you could ever reading your lifetime or understand even.
01:21:26 --> 01:21:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually the two that actually did write a lot where the ones were like, yeah, but.
01:21:31 --> 01:21:37 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what you're writing, you know, the output isn't actually what, you know, what we think is, is according to scripture.
01:21:38 --> 01:21:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have, let's see, we have Mozart, we landed on like a maybe, maybe not, maybe not, like mostly maybe not I think it was more or not than yes.
01:21:48 --> 01:21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We had Francis Drake, of course, he just mentioned it.
01:21:51 --> 01:21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I was leaning towards like, and, you know, the violence struggle with that, and I think you ended up there as well.
01:21:58 --> 01:22:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have a Charlotte main where we just mentioned already, like we landed towards like a, yeah, probably.
01:22:06 --> 01:22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have Shackleton, I think.
01:22:10 --> 01:22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll end with where Wilson, of course.
01:22:11 --> 01:22:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just tell you about it.
01:22:12 --> 01:22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a script in here.
01:22:14 --> 01:22:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I was looking at a script.
01:22:15 --> 01:22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Season one scripts are seven scripts look all the way Woodrow Wilson.
01:22:18 --> 01:22:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, and then again, he's a guy actually wrote things another guy.
01:22:22 --> 01:22:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He's on paper.
01:22:24 --> 01:22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of it isn't weird thing, but I guess it kind of makes sense if.
01:22:29 --> 01:22:47 [SPEAKER_00]: If Charles Dickens was a theologian writing like really then he wouldn't even be on the show he would have ended up unlike revive thoughts or another show like that because he would be kind of a famous you know theologian like just the slowest the fact that we don't even consider to put him in that category is kind of a beginning is in and of a self like a beginning point not that every writer had.
01:22:48 --> 01:22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You get it.
01:22:49 --> 01:22:53 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, too, we live in a modern era where we have so much of what we do as documented.
01:22:53 --> 01:23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We have Instagram or you have profiles, you write down emails, your email signature says in cry, you know, you have so many different ways to show that you are a Christian that can last after you.
01:23:04 --> 01:23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: My podcasts, my children, when I die, theoretically, my kids can go back and listen to what they want to.
01:23:10 --> 01:23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course they would, but you know, no one knows, no one knows, right?
01:23:13 --> 01:23:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But they had that ability to to look at this material and see,
01:23:18 --> 01:23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: What how could earn his shackles and have done that besides like again some diary notes set are on paper in the middle of the Arctic like how could Charlemagne have left more than he did considering he lived so long.
01:23:29 --> 01:23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think he could even write That was also an issue Francis Drake is you know dodgen pirates out in California what would we expect what but he is again.
01:23:38 --> 01:23:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He can't leave a little you know
01:23:40 --> 01:23:50 [SPEAKER_00]: sunny day in California has tagged less like he can't leave the evidence that we can theoretically leave and even you know people who postings like that who aren't so it is difficult.
01:23:51 --> 01:24:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is again reminding ourselves that like there's a level of evidence that you can expect and there's a level of evidence that's just not realistic for their time period and yeah we we're doing we we're that's what the point of the show we try to figure it out for you in the
01:24:06 --> 01:24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I think I just want to end up here with what SRM writer also wrote, so he or she said at the end here, I'm glad God knows the whole story up to the last breath and he's in the end the only one that can see the heart of people.
01:24:22 --> 01:24:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So we hope that what we do here is also glorifying to him and
01:24:27 --> 01:24:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we hope that you've learned something about these people, that you've learned some historic facts, that you've learned also, yeah, some theology or just thinking about things in a new fresh way or topics that you weren't really thinking about that you're thinking about now.
01:24:43 --> 01:24:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
01:24:44 --> 01:24:46 [SPEAKER_01]: stay a part of the conversation with us.
01:24:47 --> 01:24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep leaving your comments.
01:24:49 --> 01:25:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There will probably be a little bit of a break now before season two comes out because we just got to work on the scripts, record them, get them all edited, but yeah, we hope to be back with you not to too long, hopefully before the end of the year, we'll have some rolling out again.
01:25:05 --> 01:25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you so much for being with us through season one.
01:25:08 --> 01:25:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You have some
01:25:09 --> 01:25:10 [SPEAKER_01]: some final words to your tool.
01:25:10 --> 01:25:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do.
01:25:10 --> 01:25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this was super fun.
01:25:12 --> 01:25:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this show for a long time.
01:25:13 --> 01:25:14 [SPEAKER_00]: What would it look like?
01:25:14 --> 01:25:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And the responses have been great.
01:25:15 --> 01:25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been loving hearing all the comments.
01:25:18 --> 01:25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: People have been really digging into it.
01:25:19 --> 01:25:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The concept has worked.
01:25:20 --> 01:25:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you know what?
01:25:21 --> 01:25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: There's been pushback.
01:25:22 --> 01:25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: There's been feedback.
01:25:23 --> 01:25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There's been like, hey, I didn't agree with your take on this.
01:25:26 --> 01:25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that.
01:25:26 --> 01:25:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's super fun.
01:25:27 --> 01:25:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I've enjoyed the discussions that debates all of those things have been to me.
01:25:31 --> 01:25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So interesting to see how we all end and I hope you're feeling that same way.
01:25:35 --> 01:25:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited for more.
01:25:36 --> 01:25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: See I cannot wait for Walt Disney.
01:25:38 --> 01:25:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot wait for I'm a little maybe I don't I can wait for handle, but you know like there's
01:25:43 --> 01:26:03 [SPEAKER_00]: there's a lot of people I'm really excited to do you guys have sent so many suggestions and every time I'm like oh man why don't we have Christopher Columbus down constantly and that's a great idea like there's so many you've made so many good suggestions of people so it's clearly showing there's a need for this this show needs to exist we need something like this to have these kinds of discussions with so I'm glad that we can do that
01:26:04 --> 01:26:07 [SPEAKER_00]: In the meantime, we will be back in like a Mark send a couple of months.
01:26:07 --> 01:26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: You can listen to revive thoughts, keep yourself, you know, getting some deeper church history with people that were pretty sure are Christians.
01:26:13 --> 01:26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to my wife show martyrs and missionaries and just enjoy those podcasts so we get back with Christian or not.
01:26:19 --> 01:26:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So, my name is Mark, my name is Troy, and this was Christian and a season one.
01:26:25 --> 01:26:26 [SPEAKER_01]: See you in season two.