John MacGowan: Defending the Priests (When 6 students were expelled)

[00:00:00] Revived Thoughts is a production of Revived Studios.

[00:00:08] This is Troy and Joel, and you're listening to Revived Thoughts.

[00:00:19] A doctor, one of the heads of houses present, remarked that these six

[00:00:22] gentlemen were expelled for having too much religion and it would be

[00:00:26] appropriate to investigate the conduct of some who had too little. It was kind of difficult to get around. So I can see both why you would build it, for those being able to say you did it, but also, because the guy who built it, he was building it to kind of, he was from this local town and he wanted to put his town on the map with something. He was an architect, so he built the world's most narrow hotel, and he did, but also it was a narrow hotel.

[00:01:41] I mean, you won that prize,

[00:01:43] but that was kind of fun to say.

[00:01:44] So, been there, I've done that.

[00:01:46] Joel, how you doing? I feel that way flying in America and over here. So that it doesn't really, it doesn't feel good either way. Yeah, that sounds awful. I will say one of the perks of being a small skinny guy is, I don't encounter those issues. Plant fly from his grave. I just grilled a little bald flea. You're small, but I would say you are a bit shorter than me.

[00:03:00] So it's not a problem.

[00:03:01] But I don't look at you and think small.

[00:03:03] I think definitely slightly above average.

[00:03:05] It would probably be my place.

[00:03:05] Five, 10 and 145 deeds of the Lord. Yes, I will remember your wonders of old.

[00:04:21] Your church history and classic sermons

[00:04:22] are a regular spiritual encouragement to my heart

[00:04:24] on my commutes to work.

[00:04:25] Thank you, Jacob from Ohio.

[00:04:27] Thank you, Jacob, for listening.

[00:04:28] We do really appreciate that. of a unique sermon. It's interesting. I think it's kind of fun. It was preached as a kind of retort response to an event that took place at Oxford. And it's also a satire, which I think maybe a first on the show. It actually was never preached.

[00:05:40] It's an imagined sermon that was published

[00:05:44] in response to something.

[00:05:45] So you're supposed But because this sermon, you know, actually it started with this incident at Harvard, so we're actually going to start the back story by kind of setting up the events that

[00:07:02] took place. Okay. Either way, you know, I'm not gonna just pull you out of the line. I'll be Johnson. Okay, you be Johnson, I'll be line. All right. Sir, this expulsion was extremely just and proper. What are they to do at university who are not willing to be taught, but will presume to teach? Where is religion to be learned but at in a university? Sir, they were examined and found to be mighty arrogant fellows.

[00:08:22] But was it not hard, sir, to expel them?

[00:08:26] For I am told that they love Jesus and they were out there to win souls to Christ. Very different than if you were to go to a Methodist church today, not saying all Methodist churches are this way, because I've not been to all Methodist churches, but they have a reputation for being very progressive, very much not in,

[00:09:42] uh, in line with the idea that the Bible is inerrant and Christ was God.

[00:09:45] And they'll say they won't believe that Christ is God,

[00:10:42] and he switched denominations to join the particular Baptist. Now, it didn't seem to be like he thought

[00:10:44] the Westlians or Methodists were un-Christian,

[00:10:46] he just agreed more with the particular Baptist.

[00:10:49] He was a Calvinist pastor at a time when Calvinism

[00:10:53] was actually kind of in decline in this area of England,

[00:10:56] and Methodists actually, not all of them were Calvinists.

[00:11:00] There's many episodes we've done on John and Charles Wesley

[00:11:03] and George Whitfield, you can go check those out

[00:11:04] if you want more information on that.

[00:11:06] However, the mainhanded remark that one of them was a shaver, you know, came up in conversation.

[00:12:20] And so McGowan kind of And that is actually, that is embarrassing. It's one of his most famous, you need to turn the episode off. Go re-screwtape letters. I started screwtape letters and I struggled real hard getting through there. I mean, I love me some C.S. Lewis, I love me your Christianity, but boy, screwtape letters was a hard read

[00:13:40] and I didn't get that far into it.

[00:13:42] Okay, well you've just turned off half of our listeners.

[00:13:45] I know, I know, I know.

[00:13:46] I brought shame to revive thoughts. C.S. Lewis copyrighted or knew of this other book that says, has almost the same premise as his book and whether it was intentional, whether he was doing an homage to it, whether whatever it is, because the fact that two uncle nephew demons are giving advice on how to destroy humanity, uh, but it's supposed to be, again, a satire to show you what's going on in your real faith.

[00:15:01] It is kind of an interesting coincidence that it happened. So I was like, Whoa,

[00:15:05] I'd never heard of any of that. Um,

[00:15:07] I have no conclusions on whether or not C.S. Lewis stole it,

[00:16:02] a man graduating with Bible college degree, now ready to serve coffee at local coffee shops.

[00:16:04] And I was like, ouch, ouch.

[00:16:05] And then my time in my life when I graduated Bible college,

[00:16:08] that was about what I was doing.

[00:16:09] So that one really stung.

[00:16:11] But that's kind of what it was.

[00:16:12] By the way, if you have never listened to,

[00:16:15] a year and a half ago,

[00:16:16] we had the managing editor of the Babylon Bee

[00:16:18] come on our show to tickle us with hilarious jokes.

[00:16:21] Now, we actually had a really deep and serious conversation

[00:16:24] about eugenics with him.

[00:16:24] But if you've never listened to that episode,

[00:16:26] go back a year and a half,

[00:16:27] find the episode we did with Joel Berry. more sophisticated. I'll try to get back to you. Okay, we're gonna keep, you know, just like how people on this show write in Eric with a K or whatever, we're gonna keep tabs on that. We're gonna do a Screw Tapes watch on Joel and see how long and how well he does at getting through Screw Tape letters. I'm very curious how this goes. We'll see, yeah, I'm still not thrilled. We'll see, I don't know. I remember it bouncing off it pretty hard,

[00:17:42] but we'll see.

[00:17:43] Okay.

[00:17:44] ["The Last Post"] look like. And then there's satire that's just making fun of stuff for the point of just degrading or attacking or being irreverential and has no greater goal. I think a good person example of that is Jonathan Swift. We've actually, one of our earliest episodes was a sermon by Jonathan Swift. We should probably honestly do another one with him. And he was like the king of satire and that he could really make a point. One of my favorite points that always

[00:19:02] stood out with me was if you read Gulliver Travels, he talks about when Gulliver lands think of Elijah with the prophets of Baal yelling out, is Baal in the bathroom? You know, is Baal on vacation? Can he not hear you? Of course, Elijah doesn't believe Baal is a real God that he has to worry about, but he could have just said, Baal's not real. But he makes fun of it in a way that's humorous. I think sometimes that humor is more powerful. It reminds me of Paul when Paul is

[00:20:20] like, oh, you know, you are so rich. I'm so hungry. You are so great. I'm so dumb. You know, in

[00:20:26] Corinthians where he's kind of like, you're so amazing. I wish I could be as good as you, but Addressing such an esteemed congregation adorned with white bands, black gowns, and orthodox caps, I venture to deviate from the usual preaching path. Given the uniqueness of this occasion, I'll take the liberty to choose an unconventional

[00:21:43] text.

[00:21:44] It's a common practice, dear congregants, for most preachers to select a passage from from Oxford. On last Friday, six students from Edmund Hall were expelled from the university. This came after several hours of investigation before Mr. Vice Chancellor and some heads of houses. The charge against them was for holding methodistical tenants and engaging in activities such as praying, reading, and expounding scriptures, as well as singing

[00:23:02] hymns in a private residence. Specifically, we argue that the actions of the vice-chancellor and heads of houses are justifiable, based on the historical behavior of clergy across ages and geographies. 3. We will conclude with a special application.

[00:24:21] Let's start with an explanation, in doing which I must divide it into very small parcels, draw this inference, which is that if the vice chancellor and the heads of houses expelled these six defenders for praying to God, then it is completely natural to suppose that they are not guilty of the crime themselves. Otherwise they would have to fall under that reproof of Romans 2.1. Number two, to read and expound the scripture is another thing that seems to be prohibited

[00:25:42] there.

[00:25:43] Whether Rochester's poems, Tristram Sh write, and that although reading is dangerous there, yet an Oxonian may write with impunity. Last Friday, the better day the better deed, Friday, you know, is a fast day, on which

[00:27:03] it would be fittest to go about a work of this importance. And from this observe that there were but six students in all the university who could be detected in those evils of praying, much to the honor of that learned body. Second, that those being expelled, now there are none left in all the colleges to take upon them to pray, read, and expound the Scriptures.

[00:28:20] Therefore, gentlemen may safely send their sons to that fountain of learning without

[00:28:24] fearing that they will become religious. was performed by the Vice-Chancellor after a hearing of several hours. I remember when Bishop Hooper was sent for by Queen Mary, the pious Bishop of London, and my Lord Chancellor was determined to have him burnt, but yet to make a show of justice, they would give him a hearing, while intending not to swerve from their bloody design.

[00:29:41] So in like manner, our venerable tutors were determined not to suffer

[00:29:44] praying persons to breathe the university air,

[00:30:44] No, it was not boring either, for their lives here are said to have been very exemplary. I wish, my beloved, it had been no worse.

[00:30:48] But what was it then?

[00:30:49] Was it swearing, fighting, and abusing their fellow students?

[00:30:52] No, for they shunned the other students as a wise man will shun an eternity.

[00:30:57] So much can be gathered from our text which shows that they met together among themselves,

[00:31:01] but it was praying that my beloved, that the clergy cannot thrive as they do if every private house must become a worshipping temple. But there's little reason to fear this. See, our text informs us that the doctors

[00:32:21] of the university are determined to prevent it, gold-headed canes, and of wheeling about the streets in their chariots. With respect to their doctoring and surgery, they were guided chiefly by the dictates of nature, without the obtuse methods of art. At last there arose a great man, and his name was Galen,

[00:33:41] a mighty man for dissecting apes. For it ought to be observed that in his days

[00:34:45] living without much work, and as in a certain place says, those men care not if the devil takes the flock, provided they can just get the fleece. On the other hand, there have been some

[00:34:52] who love to pray, to sing hymns, to read and expound the scriptures, who if they were not

[00:34:58] permitted to do it in public houses or churches would sworn that he believes them, that he should not go and preach doctrines directly opposite to the said Articles. They think that no man ought to be permitted to enter the pulpit whose life and conversation is degraded. These with

[00:36:23] a great many other tenets as well, each vicious. I fear, my beloved, that if the heads of houses do not keep a good look out after this same doctor, it will be difficult for them to keep the university

[00:37:41] clear from those who pray and read and expound the scriptures. law established was the religion of the golden image which Nebuchadnezzar, at the request of the clergy, made and set up on the plains of Dura. A place, my beloved, which, if we may give credit to travellers there, very much resembles the plains of Oxford. Next, the clergy, who, as you know, have always been wonderfully fond of a golden god, would

[00:39:01] by no means suffer an act of toleration to with us in our universities. Secondly, there were astrologers or men of learned sciences, much the same as our masters of arts. Thirdly, there were sorcerers who I suppose were either fellows of the college or bachelors of arts, appointed to be tithe-gatherers.

[00:40:20] And fourthly, there were the Chaldeans or students of their divinity and other fine arts. of burning dissenters as they were, these men would have been thrice executed without having another chance for their lives. But he was not quite so fiery, but gave them another trial. If you'll read the chapter through, you'll see the outcome of it and how the doctors of the university were confounded and the dissenters were readmitted to the king's favor, for God did work

[00:41:40] for them. I pass on to the principal clergy, the heads of houses.

[00:43:02] But I ask the reverend doctors, the magicians, the masters of the art of astrology, et cetera,

[00:43:08] et cetera. body, but it is thought that he would have disagreed with them had he known that they were aiming at the life of his faithful favorite. But how stiff are these biblicists? For this Daniel went on praying to God, reading and expounding the scriptures in a private house, despite what the king had under the

[00:44:22] direction of the clergy ordained otherwise. This was enough to have

[00:44:26] provoked the heads of houses to have So likewise these young men, although they were no horse-sters, no gamblers, no drunkers, etc., yet they could be trapped in matters relating to their God. And third, this same Daniel, despite the penalty denounced in the edict against any who should take upon the clergy of that famous university at Jerusalem in the days of Christ and his apostles. In the established church of Judea there were articles of faith and a canon law, which all the clergy professed to believe, regard, and defend. This confession of faith was first compiled by Moses, the founder of that church, and

[00:47:04] afterwards ratified and confirmed by Ezra and Nehemiah, their two principal reformers. doctors were all gownsmen, but whether they wore the very same uniforms with the gentleman of Oxford University my author does not say. Yet so much can be gathered from the history that if the wandering Jew who has lived ever since these times I am speaking of should chance in his travels to call it Oxford, he would think upon his longevity, that from the manners of the heads of houses that old

[00:48:23] Jerusalem rose again from its ruins. More than 1,700 years later there arose some dissenters who made a great stir among the people and brought great uneasiness upon the clergy. I do not mean that those were dissenters from the Articles of Faith which were of old given to the saints, but they were dissenters from the clergy and did not spare to detect their errors both in principles and practice, a practice which our modern Methodists are said to be guilty of, they were in working for the destruction of Jesus Christ. And when he was risen from the dead and ascended into glory, they stopped at nothing for their zeal, for their established church, but immediately they were aware of the power of the apostles doctrine by apostles, I mean, those who took upon them to pray and read and expound the scriptures in private houses.

[00:51:04] Seeing, I say their fervor ineur, their coaches, their prestige, their plate? But you know that these rules are as different from this craft in which we, Parsons, get

[00:52:22] our wealth, as heaven is different from hell. not to avow his faith openly. There is one thing in this account that is something remarkable, namely, the wise motion of Dr. Gamaliel overruled the bloody designs of the priests. But it was not so at the other university, for although one man at Oxford defended and proved the Methodist doctrine from the articles of the Church, and spoke highly of the piety

[00:53:42] and exemplariness of their lives, his motion and I say that the heads of houses were very careful that none should enjoy one of them unless he was well known to be a true son of the church. That is to say, a promoter of the sale of the shrines of Diana, and a worshiper of the

[00:55:04] image that fell down from Jupiter. in the craft of getting wealth. Every hall had a head, and over the heads of houses was a vice-chancellor, the Reverend Dr. Demetrius by name. As for praying, reading, and expounding the Scriptures, they did not meddle with them, but were to the highest degree intent upon getting wealth. Well, they carried this craft for many years, until at last there came some

[00:56:22] itinerant preachers to town who made it their business to pray to God to read and expound expect to meet from the clergy of Oxford. It happened, however, as in the late case, that there was one man of integrity and honor amongst them, much like the one defender at Oxford. Only with this difference, the defender in Ephesus was a notary public, the other as a gentleman in holy orders. Well, this attorney, it seems being recorder of the city, thought the clergy carried their

[00:57:42] authority a little beyond the rules of moderation, reading, and expounding the Scriptures, and of seeing hymns in private or public houses, who keep their

[00:59:00] lifestyles, or possess fat wages.

[00:59:04] I know, my beloved, that oneal Queen, the clergy suffered great discontent. Why? Because praying, reading, and Scripture expounding people were suffered to live, and were even tolerated in the university, which was a kind of counterbalance,

[01:00:20] to the earnings the reverences had enjoyed in the days of Mary of the clergy. Latimer and Ridley and Hooper and Taylor and Bradford and Hunter and Philpott, etc., were all of them guilty of these heinous offences, of praying, of reading, of expounding the scriptures and of singing of hymns. The same crimes with which the Oxford Methodists were charged and for which they were expelled

[01:01:42] from the university.

[01:01:43] So beloved, I will have the nation swarming with praying people, much to the detriment of priestcraft. It is notable that we have found out more fully what four of those six gentlemen were

[01:03:01] before they set foot in the university. One was a tax well in expelling the man, because he had been a blacksmith. One other of them was a tax collector, and I suppose Mr. Vice-Chair thought that the difference between tax gathering and tithe gathering, being so very trifling that, after a young man had sufficiently learned at home to gather taxes, it was quite needless for him to come

[01:04:21] to the university to learn to gather tithes. I know, my beloved, that

[01:04:25] the old grudge between the Pharisees and the tax collectors has not yet gown is, before they have learned the first lesson of themselves, they conclude that they are able to teach others. The proof is in how many dull clergy there are. But this man, though he had been accustomed to teaching others, debased himself by receiving instructions from others. But such a poor opinion of one's own self is never going to add to the importance of

[01:05:41] the parson.

[01:05:42] And so it must not be tolerated.

[01:05:45] I will not now say any more. the sting of it would just hit you so hard, right? I mean, even just saying it now, 250 years later, I'm like, whew, I'm glad that's not me he's writing that about, right? Like that's just gotta, I think there's just times when this is effective in a way that just regularly saying, hey, it was bad of you to do that. It wouldn't be, and in its day, it exploded. I mean, people loved it. They thought this was hilarious.

[01:07:00] It skewered Oxford and really made Oxford embarrassed.

[01:07:03] And interestingly, Oxford actually, this specific hall, could preach on satirically that would make the point that hasn't been getting through to the world yet. This sermon was sent in by Nicholas Grace, personal friend of mine, I am grateful.

[01:08:20] I even got to see him over the summer

[01:08:22] when I was traveling through the States.

[01:08:23] He's a good guy and I'm really glad

[01:08:24] that he himself knows a lot about history like Reviathos is designed to bring back to life, to let you know these controversies from 250 years ago when Oxford students were expelled for praying. And I love that we get to do this kind of stuff and these ratings always help out. Whenever these get out there, it helps bump us up in all those internet algorithm things that are out there that are going on and that really helps other people find our show.

[01:09:40] So we really appreciate it.

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