Revived Thoughts Deep Dive: Taiping Rebellion

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[00:01:13] This is Troy and Joel and you are listening to Revive Thoughts Deep Dive Edition.

[00:01:17] It's Deep Dive Day! I'm excited! It's been a hot second since I've sat down to record a deep dive.

[00:01:24] It has been really way too long. Part of the reason – no, 100% of the reason is because this episode,

[00:01:29] which I've wanted to do this episode since our very first Hudson Taylor episode,

[00:01:35] which was probably like the third episode we did for Revive Thoughts,

[00:01:38] I've always had a fascination with this particular subject and I wanted to do a good job because it was something that before Revive Thoughts,

[00:01:44] I had never ever heard of the Typing Rebellion or anything we're about to talk about today.

[00:01:49] And when I discovered that there was this entire story basically that no one's talking about,

[00:01:54] I was like, somebody's got to tell this story. And so that's what we're doing here today.

[00:01:58] Yeah. And I myself am not very familiar with this subject matter.

[00:02:03] I am here to be told by Troy, educated, lectured to, and I am here to be the audience and ask questions and take it all in.

[00:02:14] And I'm reclined in my office chair. I have drinks assorted. I am ready to absorb and take it all in.

[00:02:22] I also – so my only real exposure to the Typing Rebellion is also through Hudson Taylor studying.

[00:02:30] I remember studying Hudson Taylor in college and reading his accounts of landing in China in the middle of a war

[00:02:39] and, you know, what that was like for him in essentially a war zone.

[00:02:47] And I think that's how a lot of people, if they are aware of it, if they have heard of it,

[00:02:55] they think of it as like a little civil war that happened over there.

[00:02:57] That's how I thought about it for the longest time.

[00:02:59] And I guess that is, you know, not an inaccurate way of thinking about it.

[00:03:05] But Troy tells me that there's so much more to it.

[00:03:09] Yeah. So this story is a lot more than just a civil war.

[00:03:13] It's not less than a civil war. It is a civil war.

[00:03:15] But it is – honestly, there's really no way to describe this story other than to just open up the story

[00:03:22] and let you start to experience it. I think I'll put it that way.

[00:03:25] What's the elevator pitch?

[00:03:26] A young Chinese scholar could not believe and understand the results of his exam.

[00:03:31] This civil service exam was absolutely everything in the 1800s.

[00:03:36] It determined whether he'd be a bureaucrat, whether he'd make a lot of money for his family and his village.

[00:03:41] Everything that his country had to offer was in passing this one exam.

[00:03:47] Yet for this young man, he had once again failed.

[00:03:50] The third time that he had failed the same exam.

[00:03:54] Now, he was the youngest in his very poor but very proud family.

[00:03:58] He had always been told he was smart and not just a little smart, but very smart.

[00:04:03] He had great aptitude. He was very intelligent.

[00:04:06] He had worked hard and studied pretty much his whole life.

[00:04:09] His mind maybe wandered back to 10 years ago, the very first time he took the test.

[00:04:13] It was very common to fail it. He wasn't surprised when he failed it the first time that decade ago.

[00:04:19] But to still be failing the same test a decade later is devastating.

[00:04:24] And he had failed.

[00:04:25] His village had paid for his studies growing up.

[00:04:27] When you had somebody in the village that was smart enough to take the civil service exams,

[00:04:31] everybody kind of pitched in and would pay for tutorships, would pay for his studies,

[00:04:35] in the hope that someday he would go off to get a really good job in the government

[00:04:39] and could come back and basically pay everyone back for what they did.

[00:04:43] Everyone in his family was praying to the ancients and the gods that he would pass this one test.

[00:04:50] A better life for the whole family, a happier life, was riding on him getting a government job.

[00:04:55] But he did not because you have to pass it to get it.

[00:04:59] You have to pass all three levels of this exam.

[00:05:02] He had had to travel to a foreign city at a time when it was not easy to do so.

[00:05:06] He had gone to the very large city of Guangzhou from his small, tiny village up in the rice fields.

[00:05:13] He was a foreigner who had come to the city in a way.

[00:05:16] He was a foreigner from that land.

[00:05:18] He was not ethnically the same as everyone else in China at that time.

[00:05:23] Han Chinese is the number one ethnicity, but he was from a different part of China with a different background.

[00:05:29] He had passed two parts of the civil service exam.

[00:05:32] They had these interesting names.

[00:05:34] One of them is a name in your village and a name in your region.

[00:05:41] And his goal is to pass a name in the city, a name in Guangzhou.

[00:05:45] And he had passed the first two, but he had failed the third yet again after trying three times.

[00:05:51] Now, this is a nearly impossible exam to pass.

[00:05:55] Every year, thousands and thousands and thousands of people all over China would study like crazy to pass this one exam.

[00:06:04] And every year, only 1% of those who took it would pass it.

[00:06:09] When you showed up to take this exam, they would scrutinize you intensely.

[00:06:13] They would check your fingernails to make sure you hadn't written anything down that you could remember.

[00:06:18] They would comb through your hair.

[00:06:19] They would take your shoelaces from you.

[00:06:21] They would check your jackets, everything they could to make sure that you did not cheat on this exam.

[00:06:26] Now, they would also take bribes sometimes.

[00:06:29] And the rich kids would sometimes be able to scoot through the exams through their bribes.

[00:06:32] But our person here, Hung Xu Chuan, was not rich.

[00:06:37] Hung was not able to afford those kind of things.

[00:06:40] And he did not come from the ethnic background that the Chinese leaders did.

[00:06:43] He was on his own and had to pass it without any help.

[00:06:47] Now, this exam was 72 hours long.

[00:06:50] You did not get up and take breaks.

[00:06:51] I mean, I'm sure you could go to the bathroom.

[00:06:53] But the exam didn't stop.

[00:06:55] You had 72 hours to take it.

[00:06:56] They put you down on a desk.

[00:06:58] And you worked until it was done.

[00:07:00] It was not uncommon at all for students to have complete mental breakdowns during these exams.

[00:07:06] In fact, it was not uncommon for people to die from the stress of taking these 72-hour exams.

[00:07:12] Now, Hung had always been a bit of a different thinker.

[00:07:14] In the year 1832, there was a terrible famine that struck China.

[00:07:18] He was a bit of a young man.

[00:07:20] And he remembered praying with all of his family members for the great dragon to bring rain.

[00:07:24] But it never came.

[00:07:26] And Xu Chuan, from that day on, began to realize that, hey, the gods of China don't really respond to you when you ask them for help.

[00:07:33] Now, the second time he took his exam, he was 17 years old.

[00:07:36] He had failed at that time, too, of course.

[00:07:38] But while he was in Guangzhou, he had met two different people.

[00:07:41] One of them was the name Liang Fa.

[00:07:44] Now, you probably did not know this name, but Liang Fa was very famous in China at the time.

[00:07:49] He had been one of these civil service students.

[00:07:52] And while he was taking his exams, he had met a man named Robert Morrison.

[00:07:57] Robert Morrison is one of the most famous missionaries to China.

[00:08:01] Before Hudson Taylor, everyone knew the name Robert Morrison.

[00:08:04] And Robert Morrison had brought Liang Fa to Christianity.

[00:08:06] Liang Fa then began to evangelize and share the gospel with absolutely everybody he met.

[00:08:12] And when he met Hong, he gave him a track.

[00:08:15] Now, when you think of a track, Joel, what do you think of?

[00:08:18] A little pamphlet, a little pocketable pamphlet.

[00:08:21] Sure.

[00:08:22] And that's what I think of when I think of a track, too.

[00:08:24] And that's what they're like in the West.

[00:08:26] In the East, they are not like that.

[00:08:28] In the East, they are books, several books, like nine scrolls, basically,

[00:08:33] that tell everything you can about Christianity.

[00:08:36] I don't know how they print them.

[00:08:37] I don't know how they got them around.

[00:08:39] But they would just carry these giant sets of basically volumes of books.

[00:08:42] And they called that a track.

[00:08:44] And they gave our guy here, Hong, one of those tracks.

[00:08:48] He kind of looked at it.

[00:08:49] He never read it.

[00:08:50] And when he went home, he put it on his shelf to forget about it.

[00:08:53] But it will come back.

[00:08:54] However, that was his first time ever interacting with Christians,

[00:08:58] getting these tracks from them, hearing what they had to say,

[00:09:01] being interested in what they had to say,

[00:09:02] but not really doing much about it.

[00:09:06] Now, this guy, Liang Fa, by the way, worked with the London Bible Society.

[00:09:09] He was one of their native evangelists.

[00:09:11] And as far as we can tell, he was always a very solid guy

[00:09:14] who just loved Jesus and loved sharing the gospel.

[00:09:17] He had no idea when he was handing that track that day

[00:09:19] to a 17-year-old man who had just failed his civil service exams

[00:09:22] for the second time that he was basically changing the track of history.

[00:09:28] Now, when Hong failed the exams the third time,

[00:09:31] he went home and began to get sick.

[00:09:34] He started having a fever.

[00:09:35] His body basically went into a rest.

[00:09:37] And he just completely had a breakdown.

[00:09:40] Whether it was physical from the stress and illness getting him,

[00:09:43] whether it was just a mental breakdown, it's hard to say.

[00:09:45] But it went on for a very long time.

[00:09:47] And during the middle of these fever dreams,

[00:09:50] he began to have what he called visions.

[00:09:52] Specifically, one vision that was more powerful, he said,

[00:09:56] than anything he had ever experienced before.

[00:09:58] I'm going to quote him for a while.

[00:09:59] Everything I'm reading is coming from his version of the events.

[00:10:03] That he fell into a trance during which his visions

[00:10:05] were not only much more connected than usual,

[00:10:07] but they were vivid.

[00:10:08] And afterwards, they were distinctly remembered.

[00:10:11] And he believed them to be realities.

[00:10:13] This dream opened with the sight of a large parade

[00:10:16] approaching from a distance.

[00:10:17] There was music and banners flying,

[00:10:20] lanterns and lighted torches,

[00:10:21] artificial dragons dancing in the air,

[00:10:24] dire chimeras escorting them on the ground.

[00:10:26] Men were armed holding weapons,

[00:10:29] and mandarins were riding on their horsemen.

[00:10:31] And they were preceded by volleys of fireworks.

[00:10:34] And when the procession arrived where Hong was,

[00:10:36] a splendid red and golden sedan chair was put before him.

[00:10:41] He entered it and was taken away in triumph.

[00:10:44] After that, he was taken to a palace,

[00:10:46] where there he found a large company

[00:10:48] of the most venerable and wonderful men,

[00:10:50] including the ancient sages,

[00:10:52] and among them,

[00:10:53] even a great surgeon known to history as Qin Kuei,

[00:10:56] who went up to him.

[00:10:57] He had been called to the platform

[00:10:58] to perform in the presence of everyone

[00:11:00] the act of giving Hong a new heart.

[00:11:03] Having his instruments arranged,

[00:11:04] he ordered the patient to open his shirt.

[00:11:06] And when he did so,

[00:11:07] he took out his old heart and gave him a new heart.

[00:11:11] And Hong's body suddenly was able to relax.

[00:11:13] And all of the scarring was immediately taken care of.

[00:11:16] The attendant standing by held up the old heart

[00:11:19] and got rid of it, basically.

[00:11:20] And they looked at the new heart was bright red

[00:11:22] that had been put into him.

[00:11:23] He could no longer see the scar.

[00:11:25] He was completely better.

[00:11:26] He was then introduced to one

[00:11:27] who's called the Heavenly Mother,

[00:11:29] who washed him in a river.

[00:11:30] And then he was told he would meet the Heavenly Father.

[00:11:33] This person he was going to meet

[00:11:35] was living in the palace.

[00:11:36] He then was taken to a beautiful palace with a king.

[00:11:40] Hong was amazed at the splendor

[00:11:41] of the beautiful palace and the mansion that he'd been to.

[00:11:44] This old man he met was venerable years.

[00:11:46] He had a long golden beard

[00:11:48] that hung way down to the lower chest.

[00:11:50] And he was solemnly dressed in a black robe.

[00:11:52] This person sat on a large high throne above

[00:11:56] and received Hong with much dignity and much passion.

[00:11:59] He was even brought to tears talking to him,

[00:12:01] saying all the human beings in the world

[00:12:03] are created and sustained by me.

[00:12:05] They eat my food and they wear my clothing,

[00:12:07] but not one of them will remember me.

[00:12:09] Not one of them venerates me.

[00:12:10] They take my gifts, but they pervert them

[00:12:12] and they worship demons instead.

[00:12:14] They purposely rebel against me.

[00:12:16] They arouse my anger.

[00:12:17] I please do not imitate them anymore.

[00:12:20] When Hong awoke, he bowed low to his father.

[00:12:23] He told him about what had happened.

[00:12:25] His father did not believe him.

[00:12:26] And Hong immediately took a sword that was in the house

[00:12:29] and began to swing it around the house.

[00:12:31] He was not pretending.

[00:12:32] In his mind, he was fighting and shouting,

[00:12:34] slay the demons, as he did so.

[00:12:37] His family had no idea what to do.

[00:12:39] And also in the middle of his vision,

[00:12:41] he had met someone else,

[00:12:42] someone he called the elder brother.

[00:12:44] This one was the son of the king that he had met

[00:12:46] and he had kept guiding him.

[00:12:48] And in his next 40 days of sickness,

[00:12:50] the elder brother would come and speak to him

[00:12:52] multiple times, explaining life to him.

[00:12:54] Now, his family confined him to the house for 40 days,

[00:12:57] trying to let this fever or whatever it was run out.

[00:12:59] He was not allowed to leave the house.

[00:13:01] Rumors that he had become a madman son

[00:13:03] were everywhere in the village.

[00:13:04] But after 40 days, he began to calm down.

[00:13:07] The visions ended.

[00:13:09] Eventually, it's hard to believe,

[00:13:10] he went back and started studying

[00:13:12] to take the civil service exam again.

[00:13:14] He had passed enough of it that he was licensed now

[00:13:16] to be a teacher in his village.

[00:13:18] And so sometimes he would, you know,

[00:13:19] make money by teaching.

[00:13:20] He would also make money by traveling as a fortune teller,

[00:13:23] which sounds weird to us.

[00:13:24] But in China at the time,

[00:13:25] it was quite common for the educated men

[00:13:27] to go around doing fortune telling.

[00:13:29] So it wasn't that strange.

[00:13:30] Being a little eccentric and mystical

[00:13:32] was kind of a part of the package.

[00:13:34] China did not look down on fortune tellers or sages.

[00:13:36] In fact, they thought they were pretty cool.

[00:13:38] Hung would spend the next six years

[00:13:40] off and on having these strange visions.

[00:13:42] He would also go on to take the civil service exam

[00:13:45] two more times,

[00:13:46] and he would go on to fail it two more times.

[00:13:48] He has never, never does pass the civil service exams.

[00:13:52] Throughout his years trying,

[00:13:53] he just ends up becoming a teacher,

[00:13:55] makes some money,

[00:13:56] but not as much as they had all hoped he would do.

[00:13:58] One day, his cousin is in his house

[00:14:01] looking through his books,

[00:14:02] and he sees that old tract,

[00:14:03] those nine books that he had been given,

[00:14:05] and asks to borrow them.

[00:14:07] And Hung goes, sure, have at it.

[00:14:08] A couple days later,

[00:14:09] his cousin goes back and goes,

[00:14:10] you have to read these books.

[00:14:11] These are the most amazing,

[00:14:13] interesting books I've ever read.

[00:14:14] I've never heard of religion like this.

[00:14:16] Hung is curious.

[00:14:17] He opens the book,

[00:14:18] begins to read them,

[00:14:20] and immediately he says his life now makes sense.

[00:14:23] The visions he had experienced,

[00:14:25] everything was pulling towards this moment.

[00:14:27] There's a religion in these books,

[00:14:29] a son of God named Jesus,

[00:14:32] and a king of the gods named God the Father,

[00:14:35] and that's the king he's convinced

[00:14:36] he's met in those visions.

[00:14:38] And the brother that he met,

[00:14:40] the elder brother,

[00:14:40] that's gotta be Jesus Christ,

[00:14:42] he thinks to himself.

[00:14:43] It's all making sense.

[00:14:45] And if he's the older brother is Jesus Christ,

[00:14:47] that means that he must also be

[00:14:49] the brother of Jesus Christ,

[00:14:50] for the elder brother called him his brother.

[00:14:53] And in the books he read about religion,

[00:14:55] he read about this thing called idolatry,

[00:14:57] where people were worshiping statues

[00:14:58] and making the God of these books angry.

[00:15:01] And he realized,

[00:15:03] I had a dream and a vision

[00:15:04] that I was told to destroy demons,

[00:15:06] and the demons are those statues.

[00:15:09] It's those idols.

[00:15:10] And when he began to look around them,

[00:15:11] now with this understanding,

[00:15:13] he saw everywhere he looked,

[00:15:14] Chinese people were worshiping demons.

[00:15:16] They were worshiping idols.

[00:15:17] Everywhere were statues.

[00:15:18] Jews, everywhere were these things

[00:15:21] that he now saw as demons.

[00:15:23] It all began to make sense to him.

[00:15:25] Hung knew what he was supposed to do.

[00:15:26] He went to a school room

[00:15:27] and threw the Confucius tablets

[00:15:29] that were sitting proudly

[00:15:30] in the middle of the room

[00:15:30] to the ground and smashed them.

[00:15:32] He told his students about his new vision

[00:15:34] and some of them began to join him.

[00:15:35] Not all of them.

[00:15:36] Some of them thought he was crazy.

[00:15:37] But several of them began to join him.

[00:15:39] He went outside and took a bowl of water

[00:15:41] and they baptized each other

[00:15:42] and said, we're now Christians.

[00:15:44] Shu Chuan said at this moment,

[00:15:45] when our transgressions as high as heaven rise,

[00:15:48] how well it is to trust in Jesus's full atonement.

[00:15:51] We will not follow the demons.

[00:15:53] We will obey the holy precepts,

[00:15:54] worshiping alone the one God

[00:15:56] and cultivate our hearts.

[00:15:57] The heavenly glories will open to our view.

[00:15:59] Every being ought to seek after this.

[00:16:01] I now deplore the miseries of hell.

[00:16:03] Oh, will you turn to the fruit of true repentance?

[00:16:06] Let not your hearts be bought

[00:16:08] by these worldly customs.

[00:16:10] Hung began to gather many people around him.

[00:16:12] People and relatives that joined him

[00:16:14] became baptized by him.

[00:16:15] And he would declare himself the sons of heaven.

[00:16:18] And they were the sons of the Bible.

[00:16:20] Two of his converts joined him

[00:16:22] in breaking their Confucian tablets,

[00:16:23] getting fired from their jobs and saying,

[00:16:25] we're all in Hung, lead us on.

[00:16:28] Hung began to read what little Old Testament passages

[00:16:30] were in those tracks.

[00:16:31] And he realized that those Old Testament tracks

[00:16:33] talked about a chosen race

[00:16:35] meant to destroy the Canaanites.

[00:16:36] And he applied that vision he had and said,

[00:16:39] we are the Chinese people chosen by God

[00:16:42] to exterminate the demons of this land.

[00:16:44] He told the people that he met

[00:16:45] that China's job was to free them

[00:16:47] from the demonic idols of this world.

[00:16:49] He knew someday in his mind,

[00:16:51] there would be a parade that led to a palace.

[00:16:53] And in the meantime,

[00:16:54] he would need to prepare for that moment.

[00:16:56] And so he did.

[00:16:57] He took all of his money and went to a local blacksmith

[00:17:01] and said, please create two large,

[00:17:04] three and a half foot long swords

[00:17:06] for our European or overseas listeners.

[00:17:09] That's like one meter, 1.25 meters long swords.

[00:17:14] And he had etched into them,

[00:17:15] these nine pound, again, like four kilogram swords,

[00:17:18] the names demon exterminating sword,

[00:17:22] etched into the blades of each of these swords.

[00:17:24] He carried these two swords with him everywhere

[00:17:26] once they were made.

[00:17:27] It took almost all of his money to make it

[00:17:28] that he had made as a teacher.

[00:17:30] And he and his fellow teachers

[00:17:31] now would walk around with them,

[00:17:33] specifically one, a man named Feng Yushan,

[00:17:36] who became his first

[00:17:37] and probably most important disciple.

[00:17:40] This man is almost completely unknown

[00:17:43] to the Western world today.

[00:17:44] You've probably hardly heard of him.

[00:17:46] And if you have,

[00:17:47] you know probably very little next to him,

[00:17:49] but you should know him.

[00:17:50] You've heard of the man named Hitler

[00:17:52] who killed six million people, Jews and others in Europe.

[00:17:55] You've heard of the man named Joseph Stalin

[00:17:57] and the millions he killed.

[00:17:58] You've heard of Chairman Mao

[00:17:59] and the millions he killed.

[00:18:00] And you've probably heard

[00:18:02] of the great Napoleon Bonaparte

[00:18:03] and all that he did.

[00:18:05] Yet there was a man

[00:18:05] who killed more people than Napoleon,

[00:18:07] who caused 40 times more deaths

[00:18:10] than the American Civil War.

[00:18:11] And he did it while claiming to be Jesus's brother,

[00:18:14] carrying two swords on his back

[00:18:16] meant to exterminate the demons of the world.

[00:18:18] This man, Hung Xiu Chuan,

[00:18:21] and the Taiping Rebellion

[00:18:22] will be one of the bloodiest events

[00:18:24] in human history until World War II.

[00:18:27] There are some estimates

[00:18:28] that the Taiping Rebellion

[00:18:29] killed as many as 20 million people.

[00:18:32] In World War I, 16 million people died.

[00:18:34] That would make this event bloodier

[00:18:36] than World War I.

[00:18:38] To put it in perspective,

[00:18:40] World War I killed people all over the world.

[00:18:42] There was fighting in Africa.

[00:18:43] There was fighting in Europe.

[00:18:44] There was fighting in Turkey.

[00:18:45] There was fighting in Asia.

[00:18:46] However, in this one event,

[00:18:49] all of these deaths that are going to happen

[00:18:50] are going to happen in just one country.

[00:18:53] And in fact, just one region of one country.

[00:18:56] And if you go with even the most conservative estimate

[00:18:58] and say it's not 20 million,

[00:19:00] it's let's say the lowest number a historian gave,

[00:19:02] which was 5 million people,

[00:19:04] that's still 10 times the size of the death

[00:19:06] of the American Civil War.

[00:19:08] It lasted 15 years.

[00:19:10] The American Civil War lasts,

[00:19:11] give or take four or five years,

[00:19:13] with all of its bloodshed.

[00:19:14] Imagine how damaging to the people,

[00:19:17] psychologically and physically it would be,

[00:19:19] to live through a 15-year-long civil war.

[00:19:22] And to give you a perspective,

[00:19:24] in the year 1852,

[00:19:26] the population of China is 440 million people.

[00:19:31] In the year 1870, just 18 years later,

[00:19:34] the population of China has dropped

[00:19:36] to 357 million people.

[00:19:40] 20%, 80 million people of China are just gone

[00:19:44] in about 15 years.

[00:19:46] Now that's not all due to the Taiping Rebellion.

[00:19:49] There are other things that were causing this as well.

[00:19:51] But still, I mean, can you even imagine that?

[00:19:54] Imagine how much America would change

[00:19:57] if over the course of the next 15 years,

[00:19:59] 20% of her population just disappeared.

[00:20:03] That's about 65 to 70 million people just gone.

[00:20:07] And whether they ran away and moved to another country,

[00:20:10] whether they died, whatever it is,

[00:20:12] they're gone now.

[00:20:13] That's the kind of change this story is talking about.

[00:20:17] Now as gruesome as these war statistics are,

[00:20:19] the actual story of how he did this

[00:20:21] is unlike anything else I've ever read in history.

[00:20:24] Some of you who are listening

[00:20:25] may have heard of the Anabaptists of Munster story.

[00:20:28] Joel, I know that you're familiar with that story, yeah?

[00:20:30] Great story.

[00:20:31] Terrifying.

[00:20:31] It's a great story though.

[00:20:32] It's terrifying.

[00:20:33] If you have never heard this story,

[00:20:35] we actually have never covered it on Revive Thoughts

[00:20:37] because we feel,

[00:20:38] I personally feel like Dan Carlin

[00:20:40] does such a good job of it

[00:20:41] on his show Hardcore History.

[00:20:43] Now he's not a Christian,

[00:20:44] but he does a really good job telling the story.

[00:20:46] I don't think that I could really ever do as good a job.

[00:20:49] So there's really no point in touching it.

[00:20:51] He did the perfect version of it, I think.

[00:20:53] I've also heard that James White has also done it.

[00:20:56] So if you've heard of that story,

[00:20:58] this is a very similar story in all those same ways.

[00:21:01] If you're not familiar with that story,

[00:21:03] well, hey, get buckled in

[00:21:05] because this guy with two swords on his back

[00:21:07] is about to do some very, very wild things

[00:21:11] unlike pretty much anything I've ever really,

[00:21:14] I mean, it's just weird.

[00:21:16] Now what's wild about, go ahead.

[00:21:18] I got questions.

[00:21:19] I got questions.

[00:21:20] Are you ready to field questions?

[00:21:22] I'm ready.

[00:21:23] I'm all in.

[00:21:24] Okay.

[00:21:24] So presumably this prologue that you just delivered,

[00:21:29] you're describing the villain of our story, right?

[00:21:33] It sounds kind of confusing at the beginning

[00:21:36] because it kind of sounds like a lot of the backstories

[00:21:39] of a lot of the people that we cover on this show,

[00:21:41] but this is not a guy who is in line with the scriptures.

[00:21:47] It would turn out to be.

[00:21:50] And I don't think you said his name,

[00:21:53] but I'm assuming this is Taiping, right?

[00:21:55] Is this the Taiping of the Taiping Rebellion?

[00:21:57] Is that where we get the name or is it a different guy?

[00:21:59] No.

[00:22:00] So this guy's name is Hung Xu Chuan

[00:22:02] and his name Hung.

[00:22:04] Hold on.

[00:22:04] Let me get my notebook.

[00:22:05] Let me get my sticky notes out.

[00:22:07] I got to keep track of all these names.

[00:22:08] Hung.

[00:22:10] Xu Chuan.

[00:22:12] Chu Chuan.

[00:22:13] And I'm just going to refer to him as Hung

[00:22:15] and I know that that's kind of,

[00:22:16] but his name is actually spelled like it looks like

[00:22:18] if you were saying it in English,

[00:22:20] Hung,

[00:22:20] but it's actually Hung.

[00:22:22] And it's going to be,

[00:22:23] there are a few names like that where I do,

[00:22:24] they're kind of complicated to say.

[00:22:26] I'll try to say them slowly when they come up,

[00:22:28] but there are just,

[00:22:29] I mean,

[00:22:29] all of these things happen in China.

[00:22:30] So all of these names are going to sound foreign to your ears.

[00:22:33] That's just kind of part of it.

[00:22:34] Who is Taiping?

[00:22:36] Taiping is not the name of a person.

[00:22:39] It is actually the name,

[00:22:40] it means heavenly kingdom in Chinese.

[00:22:42] So his kingdom that he sets up

[00:22:45] is going to be called the heavenly kingdom.

[00:22:47] It's an idea.

[00:22:47] It's a movement.

[00:22:48] I love it.

[00:22:49] Exactly.

[00:22:50] So Hung Chu is the leader of the Taiping rebellion.

[00:22:55] He is.

[00:22:55] This guy who just bought these two swords

[00:22:57] and is carrying them around on his back,

[00:22:58] sent by a vision from God to defeat demons,

[00:23:01] is the guy who leads this rebellion.

[00:23:04] And how old is he at this point?

[00:23:06] About 23.

[00:23:08] Okay.

[00:23:08] Okay.

[00:23:09] And like,

[00:23:10] is he a good fighter?

[00:23:12] Like,

[00:23:12] is he using these swords

[00:23:13] or are they like symbolical?

[00:23:15] I mean,

[00:23:16] to be honest,

[00:23:16] to a degree,

[00:23:17] he does use these swords.

[00:23:18] We'll tell a couple of stories,

[00:23:20] especially in the early days

[00:23:21] where he kind of is on the front lines

[00:23:22] with his guys going into battle.

[00:23:24] I mean,

[00:23:24] there's no,

[00:23:25] I don't have any specific sword fight samurai moments.

[00:23:28] You know,

[00:23:28] that would be cool.

[00:23:29] But I mean,

[00:23:30] as far as I can tell,

[00:23:31] I mean,

[00:23:31] it's a violent movement,

[00:23:32] especially in the beginning.

[00:23:33] They're almost,

[00:23:33] they're almost bandit-like

[00:23:35] in how they attack the countryside.

[00:23:37] And so,

[00:23:37] yeah,

[00:23:37] these swords are not just for show.

[00:23:39] I don't know how often he's wielding them,

[00:23:41] but he is,

[00:23:42] he's right there in the front lines

[00:23:43] going into battle.

[00:23:44] So,

[00:23:45] he buys these swords.

[00:23:46] He's got this vision.

[00:23:47] What is his like mission statement?

[00:23:50] What is his quest?

[00:23:51] What is he setting out to do?

[00:23:53] So,

[00:23:53] in the beginning here,

[00:23:54] right where we're at right now,

[00:23:55] he doesn't fully have a fully formed vision.

[00:23:58] He has this idea that God sent him a dream

[00:24:01] to free China from the demons.

[00:24:04] And that's pretty much all he's got right now.

[00:24:06] His idea is,

[00:24:07] I'm supposed to destroy the demons.

[00:24:09] He's convinced that idols are the demons.

[00:24:11] And so,

[00:24:11] his job is to destroy the idols

[00:24:13] and that will free China from the demons.

[00:24:15] That's what he thinks the elder king

[00:24:16] that he saw in that dream told him to do.

[00:24:18] Now,

[00:24:19] he will begin to flesh out a second vision

[00:24:21] that we will talk about as time goes on.

[00:24:23] And this will lead to a greater goal,

[00:24:25] but we'll kind of talk about that

[00:24:26] once he starts to have that second vision.

[00:24:28] However,

[00:24:29] I do think it's interesting that you said to me,

[00:24:31] so far,

[00:24:32] he doesn't sound like a bad guy.

[00:24:33] Because to be honest,

[00:24:34] at this point in the story,

[00:24:35] if you knew nothing else about him,

[00:24:37] you would think,

[00:24:37] he sounds like he's on my team.

[00:24:39] He's destroying idols

[00:24:40] and he's pro-Jesus.

[00:24:41] I mean,

[00:24:41] that sounds like a guy

[00:24:43] we would want to be a fan of.

[00:24:44] What goes wrong?

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:47] Tell me.

[00:24:49] Part two,

[00:24:49] let's go.

[00:24:52] All right.

[00:24:53] So,

[00:24:53] that's your elevator pitch

[00:24:54] that lasts like 20 minutes,

[00:24:55] but here we go.

[00:24:56] Let's get started on what

[00:24:57] and where it goes from here.

[00:24:58] As Hung and his friends

[00:25:00] quit their jobs

[00:25:01] and they begin to break tablets.

[00:25:02] They start going into temples

[00:25:04] and destroying idols

[00:25:05] and they share with everyone

[00:25:06] the good news,

[00:25:07] as it were.

[00:25:08] And I say the good news,

[00:25:08] as it were,

[00:25:09] because when I think of the good news,

[00:25:10] I think of the gospel.

[00:25:11] I think of Jesus Christ.

[00:25:12] I think of dying on the cross.

[00:25:13] And here's the crazy part.

[00:25:14] They're sharing something

[00:25:15] very similar to that,

[00:25:17] but they're changing it enough

[00:25:18] that it's not quite that.

[00:25:20] And if you were to ask me

[00:25:21] exactly what they changed,

[00:25:22] I don't know in this part of the story

[00:25:24] what they had changed

[00:25:24] because I don't know

[00:25:26] how they gave their gospel presentations

[00:25:27] early on.

[00:25:31] They're just working off those tracks

[00:25:33] that they borrowed from that guy.

[00:25:34] So I imagine that their version

[00:25:35] of the good news

[00:25:36] is quite similar to our version.

[00:25:38] But they were also...

[00:25:39] Go ahead.

[00:25:40] Have they like...

[00:25:43] Presumably,

[00:25:43] they don't have a Bible

[00:25:45] that they're referencing.

[00:25:46] They're just referencing

[00:25:47] the tracks.

[00:25:48] No, they're just referencing

[00:25:49] those Bible verses

[00:25:50] that are in the tracks

[00:25:51] that they were given.

[00:25:51] Some of them are from the Old Testament

[00:25:52] and some of them are

[00:25:53] from the New Testament.

[00:25:54] Gotcha.

[00:25:55] Interesting.

[00:25:57] And they...

[00:25:58] Are they interacting with...

[00:26:01] Believers out there?

[00:26:02] No.

[00:26:03] So we will have a time

[00:26:05] when we will get to a time

[00:26:06] when Hong does run into

[00:26:08] an actual Christian

[00:26:09] and it's actually probably

[00:26:10] one of the saddest parts

[00:26:11] of the story.

[00:26:12] And I think you'll agree with me

[00:26:13] like, oh, that's a real...

[00:26:14] That's a real bummer

[00:26:16] of a moment when we get to it.

[00:26:17] So let's go ahead though.

[00:26:18] They have no job.

[00:26:19] They're just teaching everyone

[00:26:21] and kind of telling everyone

[00:26:22] about this Jesus.

[00:26:23] They just spent all their money

[00:26:24] on these expensive

[00:26:25] demon-slaying swords.

[00:26:26] And so they're kind of like,

[00:26:27] well, what do we do?

[00:26:28] Our village is kind of

[00:26:29] rejecting this at the moment.

[00:26:30] They don't like

[00:26:31] that we're breaking

[00:26:32] all their statues.

[00:26:32] And he gets this idea,

[00:26:34] I'm going to go

[00:26:34] to where my home family

[00:26:36] comes from,

[00:26:36] an area of China

[00:26:37] called Guangxi.

[00:26:39] For him,

[00:26:39] this is a 300-mile walk.

[00:26:41] Now, this doesn't sound

[00:26:43] exciting to you.

[00:26:44] You go, okay,

[00:26:44] what does it matter

[00:26:45] that he's going

[00:26:45] on a 300-mile walk?

[00:26:46] But you have to understand,

[00:26:47] back then,

[00:26:47] China was a very,

[00:26:48] very dangerous place

[00:26:50] to travel from city to city.

[00:26:51] And so to say,

[00:26:53] I'm going to go to Guangxi

[00:26:54] would be the equivalent

[00:26:55] of you and I saying,

[00:26:56] hey, I'm going to go down

[00:26:56] to Afghanistan

[00:26:58] or something like that

[00:26:59] and see some caves there.

[00:27:00] Like, we're,

[00:27:00] this is talking like

[00:27:01] a very dangerous idea

[00:27:03] that he's got into his head.

[00:27:04] However, his family,

[00:27:05] I told you they weren't

[00:27:06] originally ethnically

[00:27:07] the same ethnicity

[00:27:09] as most of China.

[00:27:10] And the only reason

[00:27:10] I mentioned that,

[00:27:11] by the way,

[00:27:11] is not because that,

[00:27:12] you know,

[00:27:12] it's not important to me,

[00:27:13] but it was really important

[00:27:14] to China back then.

[00:27:15] What ethnicity you were,

[00:27:16] really determined

[00:27:17] how society treated you.

[00:27:19] And because they were

[00:27:20] not the same ethnicity

[00:27:21] as the majority,

[00:27:22] nor the leadership

[00:27:23] at the time,

[00:27:23] they were treated kind of down.

[00:27:25] But his family was from

[00:27:26] this place called Guangxi.

[00:27:27] It was up in the mountains,

[00:27:29] way deep in the heart of China.

[00:27:30] And so he kind of had this,

[00:27:31] it's very fantastical,

[00:27:33] romantic outlook

[00:27:34] that life would be good there

[00:27:35] and he would be welcomed

[00:27:36] with open arms.

[00:27:37] So he kind of goes,

[00:27:38] let's go back

[00:27:39] to my ancestral homeland,

[00:27:40] visit the people there

[00:27:41] and see,

[00:27:42] I don't even really know

[00:27:43] what his fully goal is,

[00:27:44] just to see what happens

[00:27:45] if I go there.

[00:27:46] And I think part of it

[00:27:47] has to be honest,

[00:27:48] adventure, right?

[00:27:48] Let me go into the mountains

[00:27:49] and see things

[00:27:50] that I've never seen before.

[00:27:51] Now his family supports him

[00:27:53] and says,

[00:27:54] you know,

[00:27:54] basically go clear,

[00:27:55] head in the mountains,

[00:27:56] go have a fun time.

[00:27:57] Now he goes

[00:27:58] and it's not an easy trip.

[00:28:00] I'm sure they had

[00:28:01] to deal with bandits.

[00:28:02] I'm sure they had

[00:28:02] to deal with moments

[00:28:03] where there was no food.

[00:28:04] The weather was probably

[00:28:05] not always easy.

[00:28:07] You know,

[00:28:07] during not too long

[00:28:08] after this time,

[00:28:09] Hudson Taylor will tell

[00:28:10] a story of traveling

[00:28:11] while he's in a boat.

[00:28:12] And this is actually

[00:28:13] a very sad story

[00:28:14] where he was in a boat traveling

[00:28:15] and a man fell out

[00:28:16] of the boat.

[00:28:16] The man he had actually

[00:28:17] been sharing the gospel with

[00:28:18] fell out of the boat

[00:28:19] he was in.

[00:28:19] And he couldn't swim.

[00:28:21] And there were two fishing boats

[00:28:22] next door,

[00:28:22] like really close by.

[00:28:24] And so Hudson starts yelling

[00:28:25] to these guys,

[00:28:25] hey, hey,

[00:28:26] save that guy,

[00:28:26] save that guy.

[00:28:27] And the two fishermen

[00:28:28] are like,

[00:28:29] hmm, no.

[00:28:30] And he's like,

[00:28:31] I'll pay you,

[00:28:31] I'll pay you money.

[00:28:32] And they're like,

[00:28:32] how much money?

[00:28:33] He's like,

[00:28:33] I had this much money.

[00:28:34] And they're like,

[00:28:34] ah, it's not enough money

[00:28:35] to go save the guy.

[00:28:35] And they're like,

[00:28:36] he's begging them,

[00:28:37] I'll pay you all the money I have.

[00:28:38] It's all this money.

[00:28:39] I only have this much.

[00:28:40] Just save this guy.

[00:28:41] Finally,

[00:28:41] the fishermen go,

[00:28:42] okay.

[00:28:43] They sail their boats over.

[00:28:44] But by the time

[00:28:44] they're done haggling the price,

[00:28:46] this guy drowned.

[00:28:47] And it basically came to nothing.

[00:28:49] And the reason I tell you that story

[00:28:50] is because

[00:28:51] that's kind of the way

[00:28:52] humans are treated

[00:28:53] in China at this time.

[00:28:55] If you fall over in a boat,

[00:28:57] if they can make money,

[00:28:58] maybe they'll save you.

[00:28:59] But they're not really interested.

[00:29:00] Human life has no value.

[00:29:02] The only people who care about you

[00:29:04] are the people in your village

[00:29:05] and the people in your family.

[00:29:07] The people who are a part

[00:29:08] of your ancestry.

[00:29:09] And if you're not a part

[00:29:09] of the same networks,

[00:29:11] you have to pay them

[00:29:12] to save you from drowning.

[00:29:13] That's the level

[00:29:14] of lack of care they have.

[00:29:16] So to travel in a country like that,

[00:29:18] to go 300 miles

[00:29:20] is very dangerous.

[00:29:22] And you can see how that's a really,

[00:29:23] it could literally be the end of him.

[00:29:25] Not only does he travel

[00:29:26] 300 miles into the mountains,

[00:29:27] but the mountains are not peaceful.

[00:29:29] There are tribes

[00:29:30] living in those mountains.

[00:29:31] China is a civilized nation-ish

[00:29:33] at this point.

[00:29:34] But there are in the mountains

[00:29:36] of China still

[00:29:37] these kind of tribes

[00:29:38] that are basically

[00:29:38] what you picture

[00:29:39] if you picture

[00:29:40] like a Southeast Asian tribe.

[00:29:41] Like people who are living

[00:29:43] still very much

[00:29:44] a part of the land,

[00:29:45] living in spheres.

[00:29:46] In fact,

[00:29:46] these are the people

[00:29:47] that are truly

[00:29:48] the pagan pagans.

[00:29:49] Like the ones that are still

[00:29:50] doing sacrifices

[00:29:51] and stuff like that

[00:29:52] of people.

[00:29:53] And it's dangerous

[00:29:54] to travel through those areas.

[00:29:56] But Hong gets through there

[00:29:57] and manages to get

[00:29:59] to his family

[00:30:00] on the other side

[00:30:01] and meets a distant cousin.

[00:30:02] And as soon as they arrive,

[00:30:04] everyone is so excited

[00:30:05] to meet him.

[00:30:06] They are so excited.

[00:30:07] They think it's so cool.

[00:30:07] They've never met

[00:30:08] an educated schoolmaster.

[00:30:10] Nobody from the lowlands

[00:30:11] ever comes to them.

[00:30:12] So he has all of their attention.

[00:30:14] They're like hanging

[00:30:15] on every word.

[00:30:16] And when he starts

[00:30:16] to explain to them

[00:30:17] about his new religion

[00:30:18] and this vision he had,

[00:30:19] they're all immediately sold in.

[00:30:21] They all become believers.

[00:30:22] They're all like,

[00:30:23] bring it on.

[00:30:23] We love this.

[00:30:24] This is so cool.

[00:30:25] And to give you an idea

[00:30:26] of how much power

[00:30:26] he got so quickly

[00:30:27] in that area,

[00:30:28] a local magistrate

[00:30:30] had like a local leader

[00:30:31] had arrested somebody

[00:30:32] that everyone thought

[00:30:33] was innocent.

[00:30:34] And so Hong wrote

[00:30:35] a letter basically saying,

[00:30:36] hey, don't, you know,

[00:30:38] don't execute this guy.

[00:30:40] Let him out.

[00:30:40] And he did

[00:30:41] because that guy,

[00:30:42] because he had that quickly

[00:30:43] become that respected

[00:30:44] and that powerful.

[00:30:45] So Hong is very excited.

[00:30:47] Everything went really well

[00:30:48] on his visit there.

[00:30:49] After a few months,

[00:30:50] he decides to go back

[00:30:50] to his home village.

[00:30:52] However, his disciple,

[00:30:53] Feng Yunshun,

[00:30:54] says, hey, let me stay here.

[00:30:55] I'll train up the new disciples.

[00:30:56] You go back home.

[00:30:57] And Hong seems like,

[00:30:58] yeah, it seems like a good idea.

[00:30:59] When he returns back

[00:31:00] to the village,

[00:31:01] he's now a rock star.

[00:31:02] He had left basically

[00:31:03] a weird teacher

[00:31:04] having weird dreams,

[00:31:05] but everyone had heard

[00:31:06] his stories of going

[00:31:07] to the mountains

[00:31:08] of the people he had met,

[00:31:09] of the work he had done.

[00:31:11] And everyone was like,

[00:31:12] wow, you went back

[00:31:13] to the homeland.

[00:31:13] You did it.

[00:31:14] And you're now,

[00:31:15] you're starting a new religion.

[00:31:17] You're getting new followers.

[00:31:18] He's just,

[00:31:19] in his mind,

[00:31:19] he's like a celebrity.

[00:31:20] People love him now.

[00:31:22] Everyone wants to be a part

[00:31:23] of what he's doing.

[00:31:24] He opens a school

[00:31:24] and everyone's signing up.

[00:31:26] They want to be a part of it.

[00:31:27] So he starts to write books.

[00:31:28] He writes,

[00:31:29] quote,

[00:31:30] the Imperial Declaration

[00:31:31] of Taiping Wong,

[00:31:33] a book you've certainly heard of.

[00:31:35] It's bestseller

[00:31:35] on every bookstore.

[00:31:37] And another one,

[00:31:38] quote,

[00:31:39] an ode to the,

[00:31:39] an ode on the origin

[00:31:41] of virtue

[00:31:41] and how to save the world.

[00:31:43] Now,

[00:31:43] you can see just by

[00:31:45] the names of these books

[00:31:46] that he's already,

[00:31:47] he's got big dreams.

[00:31:49] You know,

[00:31:49] an Imperial Declaration

[00:31:50] is I'm setting up a kingdom

[00:31:51] and I'm saving the world.

[00:31:54] It means I have a plan

[00:31:55] to save the world.

[00:31:56] So you can see very early on

[00:31:57] in his,

[00:31:58] even these early days,

[00:31:59] he's,

[00:31:59] he's got a dream

[00:32:01] to save China.

[00:32:02] Now,

[00:32:03] what is he trying

[00:32:04] to save China from?

[00:32:05] This is where it gets to.

[00:32:05] You said,

[00:32:06] what was his vision?

[00:32:07] This is when his second vision

[00:32:08] starts to come into play.

[00:32:09] At the time of the Qing Empire,

[00:32:11] which is when this is,

[00:32:13] China is run by a family

[00:32:14] called the Manchus.

[00:32:16] The Manchus are Manchurian.

[00:32:17] They're not Mongolians.

[00:32:19] Mongolians lives on the steppes.

[00:32:21] They're in the nomadic lands.

[00:32:22] The Manchurians are basically

[00:32:24] like the Mongolians,

[00:32:25] except instead of living

[00:32:26] in the steppe nomadic lands,

[00:32:28] they stayed in one spot

[00:32:30] in this area of Beijing

[00:32:32] and they run the country.

[00:32:34] The Manchurians are only 1%

[00:32:36] of China's population ethnically

[00:32:38] and yet they completely

[00:32:39] run the entire country.

[00:32:41] They took over

[00:32:42] after the Ming dynasty

[00:32:43] fell in the 1600s

[00:32:44] and they will rule the country

[00:32:45] till the year 1911,

[00:32:47] which is a pretty long time

[00:32:48] for a very small group of people,

[00:32:51] but they're,

[00:32:52] they have all the levers of power

[00:32:53] so it works out for them.

[00:32:55] Hong says of them,

[00:32:56] and I quote him here,

[00:32:57] if God will help me

[00:32:58] to recover our country,

[00:32:59] I will teach all the nations

[00:33:01] how they can hold

[00:33:02] their own possessions

[00:33:03] and no longer injure

[00:33:04] or rob one another.

[00:33:05] We will communicate to each other

[00:33:07] the true principles and wisdom

[00:33:08] and receive each other

[00:33:09] with propriety and politeness.

[00:33:12] We will serve together

[00:33:13] the one common heavenly father

[00:33:15] and honor together

[00:33:16] the doctrines

[00:33:17] of our one common heavenly brother,

[00:33:18] the savior of the world.

[00:33:20] This has been the wish of my heart

[00:33:21] since that time

[00:33:22] when my soul was sent to heaven.

[00:33:24] Hong said to a follower

[00:33:25] of his dream

[00:33:27] of destroying

[00:33:28] and getting rid of

[00:33:29] the Manchurians

[00:33:29] during this time.

[00:33:31] And not long afterwards,

[00:33:32] he began to have more visions,

[00:33:34] more dreams,

[00:33:35] one of which was

[00:33:36] that a giant ball of fire

[00:33:37] began to hover over his head.

[00:33:39] And to you and I,

[00:33:39] that sounds weird,

[00:33:40] but in Confucius Chinese,

[00:33:42] a ball of fire

[00:33:43] is basically a sign

[00:33:44] of you being a reborn sage.

[00:33:46] Every 500 years,

[00:33:47] a sage is supposed to be born

[00:33:49] who will restore

[00:33:50] the world to purity.

[00:33:51] And he believed

[00:33:52] this was a sign

[00:33:52] that God was making him

[00:33:54] that reborn sage

[00:33:55] and that his mission

[00:33:56] was definitely sent

[00:33:57] by God to do it.

[00:33:59] Now, you're probably thinking,

[00:34:00] but this is Confucius teaching.

[00:34:01] Yeah, Hong has a really hard time

[00:34:04] telling the difference

[00:34:04] between Confucius teaching

[00:34:06] and Christian teaching.

[00:34:07] And when he saw

[00:34:08] a fireball of heaven

[00:34:09] hanging over his head,

[00:34:11] he thought to himself,

[00:34:11] that's God,

[00:34:12] the Father,

[00:34:12] telling me

[00:34:13] that I'm on the right track.

[00:34:15] His faith is taking off,

[00:34:16] but he has not even named it yet,

[00:34:18] so he gives it a name.

[00:34:19] He says people

[00:34:20] who are following him

[00:34:21] should be called

[00:34:21] the Society of God Worshippers.

[00:34:24] And now this name,

[00:34:25] by the way,

[00:34:26] if you're hearing this

[00:34:26] and you hear rumors of this

[00:34:28] and you hear rumors

[00:34:29] of what he's been doing

[00:34:30] and you're European

[00:34:31] or American at the time,

[00:34:33] you think that what he's doing

[00:34:34] is really good.

[00:34:35] It sounds good to you.

[00:34:36] In fact,

[00:34:37] Europeans will start to catch wind,

[00:34:38] not maybe this early,

[00:34:39] but pretty soon.

[00:34:40] And they hear about a guy

[00:34:41] leading a group

[00:34:42] called the Society of God Worshippers

[00:34:44] to get rid of the idols of China

[00:34:46] who's telling people about Jesus.

[00:34:48] And for a very long time,

[00:34:50] a lot of them go,

[00:34:50] that sounds great.

[00:34:52] I have no problem with that.

[00:34:53] Like,

[00:34:53] he sounds like,

[00:34:54] kind of hope he wins.

[00:34:55] I'd much rather him

[00:34:56] be ruling the show

[00:34:57] than the Confucians.

[00:34:59] So you can see how these names

[00:35:00] and things don't sound bad.

[00:35:02] Let's do,

[00:35:03] so I think I'll periodically

[00:35:04] interrupt you with,

[00:35:06] I need to come up

[00:35:06] with a clever name for it.

[00:35:11] A time and head count check, right?

[00:35:13] So how much time has allotted

[00:35:15] since he started his quest?

[00:35:17] He bought the swords.

[00:35:18] So probably at this point,

[00:35:20] one or two years or so

[00:35:22] has passed

[00:35:23] since his buying of the swords.

[00:35:25] And he's got probably

[00:35:27] in the thousands,

[00:35:28] not yet 10,000 people

[00:35:30] following him.

[00:35:31] Wow.

[00:35:32] Wow.

[00:35:32] Yeah.

[00:35:32] If you include the people

[00:35:33] that are,

[00:35:34] yeah,

[00:35:34] he's doing good for himself.

[00:35:36] Very quick.

[00:35:37] If you include the people

[00:35:37] who are living in the mountains

[00:35:38] that are now following his disciple

[00:35:40] and you include the people

[00:35:42] in his village,

[00:35:42] I think it's very safe to say

[00:35:43] he's in the 5,000 to 10,000 person.

[00:35:45] I mean,

[00:35:46] we're talking to everyone

[00:35:46] from old ladies to babies

[00:35:48] to everything.

[00:35:48] We're not,

[00:35:49] you know,

[00:35:49] these are not all soldiers,

[00:35:50] but this is not,

[00:35:52] he's very quickly,

[00:35:53] I mean,

[00:35:53] in just two years,

[00:35:54] getting a lot of people

[00:35:55] to get behind him.

[00:35:55] And part of the reason for that

[00:35:56] is China is very open to cults.

[00:35:58] It actually still,

[00:35:59] to this day,

[00:36:00] struggles with cults.

[00:36:01] But back in this time,

[00:36:02] it really wasn't that uncommon

[00:36:03] for a mystical leader

[00:36:04] to just be like,

[00:36:05] I've got a vision from the gods

[00:36:06] and everyone going,

[00:36:07] okay,

[00:36:07] let's follow this guy.

[00:36:08] Like this was a normal,

[00:36:10] I don't want to say routine

[00:36:11] because that makes it sound like,

[00:36:13] like standard.

[00:36:15] But like,

[00:36:15] it honestly would have been,

[00:36:16] it was not out of,

[00:36:18] nobody was like,

[00:36:18] hit the presses.

[00:36:19] This has never happened.

[00:36:20] Like if something like this

[00:36:21] happened in America,

[00:36:22] if a guy started picking up swords

[00:36:23] and like cutting down things

[00:36:24] and,

[00:36:25] you know,

[00:36:25] declaring himself visions

[00:36:26] from the gods,

[00:36:27] that would make front page news.

[00:36:28] He would be arrested.

[00:36:30] The whole country would probably

[00:36:31] talk about this crazy person

[00:36:32] or we wouldn't.

[00:36:33] We'd say he's just a crazy person.

[00:36:34] But it would certainly be something,

[00:36:36] right?

[00:36:36] Like that's not something you see.

[00:36:37] Back in China's day,

[00:36:39] maybe the swords part was new,

[00:36:40] but like the idea of a cult leader

[00:36:41] getting mystical visions

[00:36:42] wasn't that surprising.

[00:36:44] What,

[00:36:44] what would you say made Hong Choo

[00:36:46] stand out and different?

[00:36:48] Like why is,

[00:36:48] why is he experiencing

[00:36:49] so much success in this area?

[00:36:52] You know,

[00:36:53] there's gotta be something about him.

[00:36:55] I would say there's a mixture of things.

[00:36:56] A,

[00:36:57] he is,

[00:36:58] uh,

[00:36:58] very intelligent.

[00:36:59] We started from,

[00:36:59] he wasn't able to pass

[00:37:00] the civil service exams,

[00:37:01] but remember they might've been rigged.

[00:37:02] So he was a really smart guy.

[00:37:04] Um,

[00:37:05] he's not the only smart guy,

[00:37:06] but he was really smart.

[00:37:07] Number two,

[00:37:08] he's,

[00:37:09] his,

[00:37:09] his attack on idolatry is unique.

[00:37:12] Like up until this point,

[00:37:13] nobody's,

[00:37:14] I mean,

[00:37:14] Muslims don't like the idols

[00:37:15] and there are a lot of Muslims in China.

[00:37:17] We'll talk about them,

[00:37:18] but like no one else is going after the temples.

[00:37:21] And then there's one more thing.

[00:37:22] Actually,

[00:37:22] I'll tell you in a minute.

[00:37:23] I think it's better to tell you in the story,

[00:37:25] almost how this happens,

[00:37:26] but there's one more thing he's doing.

[00:37:28] That's making him very popular with people.

[00:37:30] But again,

[00:37:31] we won't,

[00:37:31] that won't come up for another minute,

[00:37:33] but when I explain this to you,

[00:37:34] you'll go,

[00:37:34] Oh yeah,

[00:37:35] that,

[00:37:35] that makes sense.

[00:37:36] I can see now why people especially liked his ideas.

[00:37:39] But let's get off.

[00:37:40] Cause I told you there was kind of a moment where he meets real Christians and we've kind of reached that part in the story now where he's starting a cult,

[00:37:49] but he has this,

[00:37:49] this off ramp.

[00:37:50] I kind of like look at this as like,

[00:37:52] there was an exit off ramp where if he had taken this off ramp,

[00:37:55] maybe everything that's going to happen doesn't happen.

[00:37:57] This is the only moment truly where there's like a real exit ramp where this entire story could have been different.

[00:38:04] This could have been,

[00:38:05] you know,

[00:38:05] the story of the great Christian evangelists had this gone a little bit better.

[00:38:09] But in the year 1846,

[00:38:11] an American Baptist missionary who was living nearby in a nearby city heard about Hong's movement,

[00:38:16] heard about a guy talking about Jesus and all this stuff.

[00:38:18] This man,

[00:38:19] his name was Reverend Issachar Roberts is a tough guy.

[00:38:23] He goes down to history known as kind of a tough man.

[00:38:25] On the one hand,

[00:38:26] he seemed to be a very faithful follower of God.

[00:38:29] He moved to Macau in 1837.

[00:38:30] He spent five years working with leper colonies.

[00:38:33] We're talking about the people who have leprosy who nobody wants to work with.

[00:38:37] And while he was there,

[00:38:38] he contracted leprosy.

[00:38:40] After a while,

[00:38:40] he eventually moved out of Hong Kong.

[00:38:43] He was the first Baptist missionary to ever move outside the city.

[00:38:47] And one of the first foreigners to ever live outside the foreign exclusion zones.

[00:38:51] Back in those days,

[00:38:52] China had specific areas where foreigners could live and you weren't allowed to move outside of them.

[00:38:56] Issachar here is one of the very first ever move outside of them and begin,

[00:39:00] you know,

[00:39:01] just living among the common people.

[00:39:03] He moves to Guangdong,

[00:39:05] which you don't know where that is.

[00:39:06] That's okay.

[00:39:06] It's Southern tip of China in this area where Hong is.

[00:39:09] And he begins to hear about this movement.

[00:39:12] By the way,

[00:39:12] I have been to Macau.

[00:39:13] If you can ever go to Macau,

[00:39:14] it's really pretty.

[00:39:15] It's a very,

[00:39:16] very lovely,

[00:39:16] lovely area.

[00:39:18] But anyway,

[00:39:18] he gets to,

[00:39:19] he kind of starts a Western church there.

[00:39:21] This guy,

[00:39:22] this Baptist missionary.

[00:39:23] And it's the only,

[00:39:24] it's literally the only one for probably like 50 million people.

[00:39:28] And it's the only one in the entire region.

[00:39:30] And he hears about Hong and he invites him.

[00:39:32] He says,

[00:39:32] come to my church.

[00:39:33] I want to talk with you.

[00:39:34] And so Reverend Roberts invites him.

[00:39:36] He meets him.

[00:39:36] Reverend Roberts actually gives us the only physical description of this guy.

[00:39:40] He says he's a healthy looking guy.

[00:39:42] He's very muscular.

[00:39:43] He's a five foot eight inches,

[00:39:45] which I did the math for our overseas listeners.

[00:39:47] That's 1.72 meters.

[00:39:49] And he says like,

[00:39:50] this guy has big shoulders.

[00:39:51] And remember he's carrying around two demon slaying swords.

[00:39:54] So imagine like a pretty physically buff scholar carrying around two,

[00:39:58] uh,

[00:39:59] sword slaying slayers for demons.

[00:40:01] It kind of reminds you,

[00:40:01] have you ever seen like memes of like a Chad,

[00:40:03] like one of those buff guys,

[00:40:04] you know,

[00:40:04] that goes around.

[00:40:05] That's kind of the vibe he gives off,

[00:40:07] which is not what you think.

[00:40:08] When you first hear the story,

[00:40:09] you hear about this guy studying.

[00:40:10] You're giving me mixed,

[00:40:10] mixed descriptions here,

[00:40:12] Troy.

[00:40:12] Yeah.

[00:40:13] But this,

[00:40:13] the thing is every,

[00:40:14] the scholars was like the best job you could have.

[00:40:17] Like that was the businessman of their day.

[00:40:19] So even though you're imagining a guy just studying books,

[00:40:22] like with big nerdy glasses and reality,

[00:40:23] he's this buff dude carrying swords going around looking pretty tough.

[00:40:28] Now hung shirt,

[00:40:29] everything he'd been doing with Roberts,

[00:40:30] the vision,

[00:40:31] the evangelism,

[00:40:32] everything.

[00:40:33] And Roberts accepted him as a Christian.

[00:40:35] He kind of,

[00:40:35] he kind of,

[00:40:36] um,

[00:40:36] asked them questions,

[00:40:37] introduced them to fellow church mission members.

[00:40:39] Um,

[00:40:40] he then began to teach him from them.

[00:40:42] It was here for the first time where hung learned about the difference between the old and new

[00:40:46] Testament.

[00:40:46] And he'd been doing all this work for two,

[00:40:48] two,

[00:40:48] three,

[00:40:48] four years and had never heard that there was an old and new Testament.

[00:40:51] He also got introduced to the doxology.

[00:40:54] At this point,

[00:40:55] he was given his first Bible.

[00:40:56] Like he,

[00:40:57] that like this Roberts guy goes like,

[00:40:58] you don't even have a Bible yet.

[00:40:59] Gives them his first Bible in Chinese.

[00:41:01] Um,

[00:41:01] it's called the good soft Bible and it has Bible stories,

[00:41:04] but it's not like a complete translation.

[00:41:06] It has pictures and stuff.

[00:41:07] It's not all the way,

[00:41:08] but it is in Chinese.

[00:41:10] He was also taught the 10 commandments.

[00:41:11] Roberts is like,

[00:41:12] Hey,

[00:41:12] let's go through some basic stuff.

[00:41:13] Here are the 10 commandments.

[00:41:14] Now the 10 commandments is something that hung is going to really,

[00:41:18] really attach himself to.

[00:41:19] And you're going to see later on,

[00:41:20] like he has like a really unhealthy obsession with the 10 commandments.

[00:41:23] Um,

[00:41:24] he also learned him singing.

[00:41:25] Like this is the first time he ever learned there were songs,

[00:41:27] a part of the Christian faith.

[00:41:29] However,

[00:41:29] he doesn't really sing them the right way.

[00:41:31] Like way we sing songs,

[00:41:32] you know,

[00:41:33] amazing grace.

[00:41:34] He kind of sings them in like a chanting Chinese scholarly Buddhist way where

[00:41:39] it's like amazing grace.

[00:41:40] How sweet.

[00:41:41] Like that's kind of how he thinks songs are supposed to be saying.

[00:41:44] So he's not,

[00:41:45] you know,

[00:41:45] he's applying his culture to it,

[00:41:47] but he's not quite learned yet how things really kind of run.

[00:41:51] And there's a little bit where it's like,

[00:41:52] look,

[00:41:52] every culture is different.

[00:41:53] I mean,

[00:41:53] is there just one way to sing the songs?

[00:41:56] Maybe not.

[00:41:57] However,

[00:41:57] um,

[00:41:58] if you've ever heard chanting by Buddhists,

[00:41:59] it is kind of,

[00:42:00] it can be a little bit creepy.

[00:42:01] And so I do,

[00:42:02] I don't love the idea of hearing a bunch of like Christian hymns chanted at in

[00:42:06] Buddhist ways.

[00:42:07] But anyway,

[00:42:07] so it's kind of to me that one thing that stands out to me is just when he

[00:42:11] meets this Reverend Roberts guy,

[00:42:13] how incredibly little he knew about God and yet how much he had already done.

[00:42:18] He had already brought like 10,000 people to his,

[00:42:21] his religion.

[00:42:22] And he didn't even have this basic of a knowledge of God as he didn't have a

[00:42:26] Bible.

[00:42:26] He didn't have the old and new Testament.

[00:42:28] He didn't have any songs.

[00:42:29] He didn't have,

[00:42:30] he knew so late,

[00:42:31] even though the 10 commandments,

[00:42:32] but he was already able to convince 10,000 people to follow,

[00:42:36] you know,

[00:42:36] what he was calling his elder brother,

[00:42:38] Jesus.

[00:42:39] And to me,

[00:42:40] that's just wild.

[00:42:41] I just think about how many like Christians go ahead.

[00:42:43] Sorry.

[00:42:44] Clarify for me.

[00:42:45] So he thinks that his older brother is Jesus.

[00:42:49] He thinks that the vision he saw,

[00:42:51] there's this dream elder brother that met with him and he believes that person

[00:42:55] is Jesus.

[00:42:56] Yes.

[00:42:57] Okay.

[00:42:57] Okay.

[00:42:58] So he is,

[00:42:58] he is some type of reincarnated version of Jesus's brother.

[00:43:04] Kind of like that.

[00:43:05] Yeah.

[00:43:06] To some capacity.

[00:43:07] To some capacity.

[00:43:08] I imagine it.

[00:43:08] Um,

[00:43:09] and like,

[00:43:09] he talks about his vision of heaven,

[00:43:11] much like Paul talks about his vision in heaven where he's like,

[00:43:14] Oh,

[00:43:14] during my time in heaven,

[00:43:15] like during the vision I had in heaven.

[00:43:17] But again,

[00:43:17] the difference being,

[00:43:18] I don't think,

[00:43:19] uh,

[00:43:19] Hong actually saw heaven here.

[00:43:21] Uh,

[00:43:22] but it is,

[00:43:23] it is a confusing and interesting thing.

[00:43:25] So yeah,

[00:43:25] he,

[00:43:25] and again,

[00:43:26] this guy is a Baptist missionary.

[00:43:27] It worked with him,

[00:43:28] questioned him.

[00:43:28] He seems to believe at least for a while that Hong is a Christian.

[00:43:33] In fact,

[00:43:34] Roberts,

[00:43:34] in fact,

[00:43:35] after interviewing and working with him for a couple months,

[00:43:37] came up with a plan basically to say,

[00:43:39] Hey,

[00:43:39] like,

[00:43:39] Hey,

[00:43:39] let's get you baptized and kind of get you working with us.

[00:43:43] Now,

[00:43:44] Roberts is a tough guy.

[00:43:46] I kind of look at him as like a Martin Luther,

[00:43:48] one of those guys that like,

[00:43:49] he's really helpful for history,

[00:43:50] but he would have been tough.

[00:43:52] Um,

[00:43:52] not always,

[00:43:53] you know,

[00:43:54] your favorite,

[00:43:54] even Hudson Taylor had a reputation for being kind of a tough guy and to live and work in China.

[00:43:59] And this time you kind of needed to be tough.

[00:44:03] Squished.

[00:44:03] This is no way other way to say it.

[00:44:05] Now there's two different versions of this story that were,

[00:44:08] one was that,

[00:44:09] that Roberts was just too tough of a guy and kind of scared Hong off.

[00:44:13] The other side of it was,

[00:44:15] uh,

[00:44:15] the way Hong says it,

[00:44:16] it wasn't that Roberts was a problem.

[00:44:18] He loves Roberts.

[00:44:18] He thinks Roberts was great.

[00:44:20] It's that Roberts had a jealous Chinese assistant who basically was worried Hong was going to replace him.

[00:44:26] So he told Hong,

[00:44:27] Hey,

[00:44:27] you're about to work for us.

[00:44:28] You should ask for a salary.

[00:44:30] Hong was like,

[00:44:30] Oh,

[00:44:30] you know,

[00:44:31] I don't have a lot of money.

[00:44:31] That's not a bad idea.

[00:44:33] Roberts and said,

[00:44:33] Hey,

[00:44:33] can I get paid?

[00:44:34] And Roberts got nervous about that and was like,

[00:44:37] wait a second.

[00:44:37] Is he only getting baptized because he wants a job and to get paid?

[00:44:40] And this kind of led to a breakdown in communications between the two of them where both sides aren't really trusting the other.

[00:44:47] Now it's also possible that Hong lied about the assistant and there was no assistant that said that.

[00:44:51] And he just on his own asked for money.

[00:44:53] And Roberts got nervous either way.

[00:44:55] What the plan to get him baptized kind of fell through.

[00:44:57] And this just kind of led to a ministry breakup between the two of them.

[00:45:00] And eventually,

[00:45:02] a couple months later,

[00:45:03] Hung is back leading his quote unquote disciples and Roberts is back to doing his own ministry work.

[00:45:09] Now the breakdown must not have been that bad though,

[00:45:12] because when the Taiping kingdom is set up,

[00:45:14] Hung will hire Roberts as his foreign minister,

[00:45:17] as the guy who reaches out to other countries for him.

[00:45:20] So it wasn't like he was mad at him or anything.

[00:45:23] I mean,

[00:45:23] they had a good relationship,

[00:45:24] a good enough relationship that when Hung needed a foreign minister,

[00:45:27] he reached out to Roberts and said,

[00:45:28] hey,

[00:45:28] I want you.

[00:45:29] I got to have you.

[00:45:29] Can you come work for me?

[00:45:31] So again,

[00:45:31] what exactly happened?

[00:45:33] I don't know.

[00:45:33] But the problem for me is I look at this,

[00:45:36] I was like,

[00:45:36] this was the exit ramp.

[00:45:37] This was his opportunity to get real Christianity,

[00:45:40] to really learn about God and have a mentor kind of lead him in the right way and kind of help unwind some of these weird thoughts he had.

[00:45:47] And instead,

[00:45:48] it doesn't end up happening.

[00:45:49] In fact,

[00:45:50] if anything,

[00:45:51] Hung is now more better educated,

[00:45:53] more,

[00:45:53] has more understanding of the Christian faith enough to make it look really Christian.

[00:45:57] And yet it's also not at the same time.

[00:45:59] He's almost more dangerous now because of his training than he was when he started because he only got two months of training,

[00:46:05] just enough to teach him a lot more Christian sounding things,

[00:46:08] but not enough to really seem to get into his head what Christianity was all about.

[00:46:13] And if his story is true,

[00:46:15] if this all happened because of one jealous assistant,

[00:46:19] like one dude who was jealous of Hong's popularity and,

[00:46:22] and whatever,

[00:46:23] and he decided to basically sabotage this guy,

[00:46:26] I mean,

[00:46:27] we're going to look at a very violent,

[00:46:29] bloody,

[00:46:30] history changing event.

[00:46:31] All maybe could have been,

[00:46:32] could have been avoided if one assistant hadn't been jealous.

[00:46:35] And I'm like,

[00:46:36] that's,

[00:46:36] that's kind of a wild thought.

[00:46:37] How much just,

[00:46:38] you know,

[00:46:39] we,

[00:46:39] little action.

[00:46:40] One of the things that fascinates me about Revive Thoughts and about history is how little events can change history.

[00:46:45] And I mean,

[00:46:46] it is kind of wild to think about this entire story would have been avoided had one jealous assistant not just,

[00:46:51] you know,

[00:46:52] said,

[00:46:52] hey,

[00:46:52] go ask him for a salary.

[00:46:53] Who knows how different the world might have been,

[00:46:56] but it isn't.

[00:46:58] So Hong leaves that region,

[00:46:59] goes back to where his people are.

[00:47:00] He goes and checks on his disciple in the mountains.

[00:47:02] And that guy has thousands of people waiting for him.

[00:47:05] He's like,

[00:47:05] hey,

[00:47:05] we've been waiting for you.

[00:47:06] He himself has thousands of people back in his home village where his preacher friends have been waiting.

[00:47:10] Hong immediately starts passing out.

[00:47:12] He'd gotten a bunch of Bibles from Reverend Roberts.

[00:47:14] And so he starts passing them all out.

[00:47:16] He's like,

[00:47:16] we have Bibles.

[00:47:17] This is great.

[00:47:18] And this is when he begins to name the movement.

[00:47:20] He calls it the Taiping movement,

[00:47:21] which means the great peace.

[00:47:23] And he says,

[00:47:24] hey,

[00:47:24] everybody,

[00:47:24] we're going to become the great peace that covers China in peace.

[00:47:27] We're going to make China a part of a great peace.

[00:47:30] Now things are going really well until Feng Yushan,

[00:47:34] that guy who'd gone to the mountains,

[00:47:35] who brought back disciples,

[00:47:36] ends up getting arrested by a local wealthy landlord.

[00:47:41] Basically,

[00:47:42] these landlords would have their own armies and they arrest him.

[00:47:45] He was considered to be breaking the law,

[00:47:47] leading people into paganism and rebellion.

[00:47:50] Now you're thinking,

[00:47:51] why would this be paganism?

[00:47:52] Well,

[00:47:53] in China at the time,

[00:47:54] worshiping Confucian statues was good.

[00:47:57] Worshiping Buddhist statues was good.

[00:47:59] But worshiping pagan statues always led to human sacrifice.

[00:48:03] They did not like pagans.

[00:48:05] And because these guys were destroying Confucius and Buddhist statues,

[00:48:08] they assumed they must be pagans.

[00:48:10] They didn't really have a category for Christianity.

[00:48:12] If they understood the idea of Christianity,

[00:48:14] at this point in China's history,

[00:48:16] it was like,

[00:48:16] that's the European religion and you're not European.

[00:48:18] So it doesn't really matter.

[00:48:20] But they had no real category of what to do with this idea of like a Christian God.

[00:48:25] However,

[00:48:26] Feng Yushan defending himself in court is able to get out of jail.

[00:48:31] And he goes,

[00:48:31] no,

[00:48:32] no,

[00:48:32] no,

[00:48:32] we're not worshiping anything new.

[00:48:35] We're worshiping something old.

[00:48:37] He pulled out like their old Buddhist like texts and said,

[00:48:40] there is an old,

[00:48:41] old God from the very beginning of China's history called Shangdi.

[00:48:45] This name,

[00:48:46] Shangdi means Lord or creator.

[00:48:48] He says,

[00:48:49] this is the oldest worship going back to the ancient times of China.

[00:48:53] And there is,

[00:48:53] we like archaeologists have discovered that there was a religion back in the 2000s BC

[00:48:58] where China believed in a singular deity,

[00:49:01] one God that controlled everything called Shangdi.

[00:49:04] And even to this day,

[00:49:05] when Christians,

[00:49:06] Jews,

[00:49:07] and Muslims use the term for God in China,

[00:49:09] they often use the same term,

[00:49:11] Shangdi,

[00:49:12] the one Lord creator.

[00:49:13] And so Feng Yushan goes basically,

[00:49:15] hey,

[00:49:16] we're not worshiping a new God that no one's ever heard of.

[00:49:20] We're going back to the original worship that the Chinese people used to have,

[00:49:23] the worship of Shangdi.

[00:49:25] Now,

[00:49:26] this is not the last time Shangdi in this worship will come up.

[00:49:28] We'll talk about it more later on because it's actually a big deal to

[00:49:33] the missionaries in China.

[00:49:34] They use the same tactic to this day of basically saying like,

[00:49:38] worshiping Jesus is not worshiping something new.

[00:49:40] It's actually going back to something very,

[00:49:42] very old that China used to do.

[00:49:45] Feng Yushan gets out of jail.

[00:49:47] They let him out.

[00:49:48] They can't argue with him.

[00:49:49] It doesn't say they can't convince the court that he was making up a new

[00:49:52] religion or going back to paganism.

[00:49:54] So he gets to get out of jail.

[00:49:55] And this is a huge victory.

[00:49:57] Everyone loves this because they basically,

[00:49:59] the people of the country really don't like the Chinese government at this time.

[00:50:02] And they really don't like the Qing empire.

[00:50:03] They see them as the bad guys that cause everyone's problems.

[00:50:06] And so for Hung's little group to beat them in court,

[00:50:09] this is considered a huge victory.

[00:50:11] Like,

[00:50:12] dude,

[00:50:12] these guys are the real deal.

[00:50:13] They,

[00:50:13] they walk around with swords,

[00:50:15] they throw down statues,

[00:50:16] and they beat the Qing empire in court.

[00:50:20] They're really,

[00:50:21] really cool in their minds.

[00:50:22] In 1848,

[00:50:23] this group really begins to take off,

[00:50:24] especially with former scholars.

[00:50:27] You see that giant civil service exam that thousands and thousands of people take,

[00:50:31] but only 1% pass.

[00:50:33] Well,

[00:50:33] for decades,

[00:50:35] 99% of people have been failing that exam,

[00:50:37] which means all over China,

[00:50:39] there are all these people who have been failing these exams with nowhere to go.

[00:50:43] They're highly,

[00:50:44] highly educated.

[00:50:45] They know their history.

[00:50:47] They know their books,

[00:50:48] but there's no job for them.

[00:50:49] And they've been basically depressed all these years.

[00:50:51] They hear about this movement that Hung is leading,

[00:50:54] and they join him.

[00:50:54] They're basically like,

[00:50:55] finally a chance for us to write society.

[00:50:58] Finally,

[00:50:58] a chance for all my education,

[00:50:59] all my literacy,

[00:51:01] all my knowledge to actually be useful.

[00:51:03] So his,

[00:51:04] like these people that have been failing out for years,

[00:51:06] begin to coalesce around Hung.

[00:51:08] And they're some of the smartest people in the entire country.

[00:51:11] And this old system,

[00:51:13] they see it as dooming millions of people to poverty and destitution.

[00:51:16] And Hung is like basically a bomb that just comes over and rolls over to blow the whole system up.

[00:51:22] And they had just won court cases.

[00:51:24] Everyone is a really big fan.

[00:51:26] 1848 is also the year when things begin to get a little bit more strange.

[00:51:31] During this time,

[00:51:32] two people will come together to meet with Hung.

[00:51:35] And they'll say,

[00:51:35] hey,

[00:51:36] one of these guys,

[00:51:37] Yang Xu Qing Yang,

[00:51:39] he comes to Hung and says,

[00:51:40] hey,

[00:51:41] you know how you're the brother of Jesus?

[00:51:42] And Hung is like,

[00:51:43] I am.

[00:51:44] He's like,

[00:51:44] I want you to know that I am the voice of God on earth.

[00:51:47] That's right.

[00:51:48] When I speak and I'm in a meditative state,

[00:51:50] I am speaking God's actual words.

[00:51:52] Now,

[00:51:53] this guy was originally an orphan.

[00:51:54] He used to make charcoal for a living.

[00:51:56] He was a very,

[00:51:57] very low class.

[00:51:58] But in the typing world,

[00:52:00] in this system that Hung is in the process of creating,

[00:52:03] he says he's the voice of God.

[00:52:04] So Hung goes,

[00:52:05] oh,

[00:52:05] you're the voice of God.

[00:52:06] Well,

[00:52:06] welcome aboard voice of God.

[00:52:07] We're happy to have you.

[00:52:09] You're no longer an orphan charcoal seller in my world.

[00:52:12] You're now the voice of God.

[00:52:14] And you will be treated with all the respect.

[00:52:15] Do I need to write this name down?

[00:52:15] Do I need to write Young down?

[00:52:17] Yeah,

[00:52:18] Young will come back.

[00:52:18] And there's another guy here as well that's about to come back.

[00:52:21] This guy is actually the voice of Jesus.

[00:52:23] This man's name is Xiao Chow Gui.

[00:52:25] And he comes up to him and basically says the same thing.

[00:52:28] He's like,

[00:52:28] no,

[00:52:28] the other guy is the voice of God.

[00:52:29] I'm actually the voice of Jesus.

[00:52:31] And he goes,

[00:52:31] oh,

[00:52:32] cool.

[00:52:32] It's the voice of Jesus.

[00:52:33] Okay,

[00:52:33] we got you too.

[00:52:35] It reminds me of this.

[00:52:36] This is going to be stupid and such a specific analogy that I shouldn't probably even use it.

[00:52:40] But if you've ever seen The Office,

[00:52:42] there's a scene in The Office where like everybody in The Office is playing like a game

[00:52:46] where they're doing like a role play game.

[00:52:48] The character Michael Scott is trying to distract people.

[00:52:51] And so they're all really sad.

[00:52:52] And in the end,

[00:52:53] during this game,

[00:52:54] one person declares himself a double agent.

[00:52:56] And like everyone else playing the game then declares themselves a double agent.

[00:53:00] That's what I remind,

[00:53:01] that's what this whole scene reminds me of.

[00:53:03] That's what in my head happens.

[00:53:04] Like one guy's like,

[00:53:05] I'm the voice of God.

[00:53:06] And someone else is like,

[00:53:06] no,

[00:53:07] I'm also the voice of heaven.

[00:53:08] I'm Jesus's voice.

[00:53:09] And like everyone now is a voice of somebody.

[00:53:11] Like you can't just have one of them.

[00:53:12] And I mean like from a,

[00:53:14] look,

[00:53:14] from a purely lifestyle standpoint,

[00:53:17] if all you have to do is go,

[00:53:18] oh,

[00:53:18] I'm the voice of like the Holy Spirit.

[00:53:20] And suddenly you become a position of leadership.

[00:53:22] You get a crown.

[00:53:23] People carry you in a chair.

[00:53:24] Like,

[00:53:25] I mean,

[00:53:25] that's going to be tempting to do,

[00:53:26] right?

[00:53:27] I mean,

[00:53:28] your life just got a lot better from when you were the orphaned charcoal seller,

[00:53:32] which is what you were up until that point.

[00:53:34] Yeah.

[00:53:34] Now these two guys.

[00:53:36] Hold on.

[00:53:36] Hold on.

[00:53:36] So we got Hong Chu,

[00:53:38] who is the brother of Jesus,

[00:53:40] self-proclaimed.

[00:53:41] And we got Yang,

[00:53:42] who believes he's the voice of God when he's in a meditative state.

[00:53:45] And then Chao,

[00:53:46] who is Jesus.

[00:53:48] The voice of Jesus.

[00:53:49] The voice of Jesus.

[00:53:50] The voice of Jesus.

[00:53:51] And these three are rolling as a gang now.

[00:53:53] They're a posse.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:55] And they've got their,

[00:53:56] their big disciple,

[00:53:57] Feng Yunshan,

[00:53:58] who's like,

[00:53:58] he's the brains of the outfit.

[00:53:59] This dude can convince anybody of anything.

[00:54:01] He can win court cases.

[00:54:02] He's,

[00:54:03] he's like your apostle,

[00:54:04] apostle.

[00:54:05] He's,

[00:54:05] he's like the,

[00:54:06] the herald that,

[00:54:06] that can,

[00:54:07] yeah,

[00:54:08] can,

[00:54:08] yeah,

[00:54:09] he's,

[00:54:09] that's a good way.

[00:54:10] He,

[00:54:10] he's your John the Baptist.

[00:54:11] If we're using biblical,

[00:54:12] he didn't call himself John the Baptist,

[00:54:13] but if you're using a biblical parallel,

[00:54:15] he would be your John the Baptist,

[00:54:16] getting everyone ready for these guys.

[00:54:19] Gotcha.

[00:54:19] Okay.

[00:54:20] So,

[00:54:20] so has,

[00:54:21] has time allotted,

[00:54:22] elapsed here?

[00:54:23] Does he have more followers?

[00:54:25] Is he older?

[00:54:25] This is,

[00:54:26] this is still happening around the year 1848.

[00:54:28] And I think it's kind of like,

[00:54:29] let me explain to you what these guys mean when they say that their voice.

[00:54:32] So it's not like if they need a cup of water and they say,

[00:54:34] I'm thirsty.

[00:54:34] That was like God spoke,

[00:54:36] but they would go into these meditative trances and they would just like,

[00:54:39] I don't know if there were drugs involved or what.

[00:54:41] I actually don't think there were,

[00:54:42] they would just kind of meditate for a while and they would just trance out.

[00:54:45] And then whatever they said during these trances would then be considered from the

[00:54:49] voice of God or the voice of Jesus.

[00:54:52] Now,

[00:54:53] Hong did never doubted any of this.

[00:54:55] Like he never showed even a hint that he doubted these guys were the real deal.

[00:54:58] Um,

[00:54:59] but once you have two people who are going into meditative trances,

[00:55:02] it seems becoming common for lots of people in this group to have fits,

[00:55:06] to have chances to fall on the ground and like sweat and roll around.

[00:55:09] I mean,

[00:55:09] this is becomes a very full blown mystical kind of cult and Hong never shows any

[00:55:14] doubt that any of it's legit.

[00:55:15] Like,

[00:55:15] I mean,

[00:55:16] he's,

[00:55:16] how can you,

[00:55:17] if it's legit for you,

[00:55:18] you can't really question if it's legit for other people as well.

[00:55:21] Now their way of worshiping was really strange.

[00:55:24] They would meet in a house.

[00:55:25] They would all bow down to whichever direction light was coming.

[00:55:28] So,

[00:55:29] you know,

[00:55:29] it was sunny.

[00:55:30] You would bow down that direction.

[00:55:32] Someone would read words,

[00:55:33] uh,

[00:55:33] from whatever Bible they had.

[00:55:35] They would sing,

[00:55:36] but they wouldn't sing with melody.

[00:55:37] Again,

[00:55:37] they would kind of do the Buddhist monk chanting style of singing much more of a

[00:55:41] chant than,

[00:55:42] than actually singing the songs.

[00:55:44] And he,

[00:55:44] they would use the hymns that Hong had learned from those two months with the

[00:55:47] Baptist missionary.

[00:55:48] Whenever new members wish to join,

[00:55:50] they'd have the member write out all of their sins,

[00:55:53] confess them to the group.

[00:55:54] And then they would take three cups of tea and drink them.

[00:55:57] That was like their way of doing the baptism.

[00:55:59] And then they would take the piece of paper with the sins and throw them into

[00:56:01] the fire to signify burning the old sins away.

[00:56:04] Then they would ask if they could be renounced to their old ways and be made

[00:56:07] pure.

[00:56:08] And when that was over,

[00:56:09] they would pour water on their head.

[00:56:10] Then,

[00:56:11] and this is the part where you said,

[00:56:12] so why are they so popular?

[00:56:13] I think this explains a lot of it.

[00:56:15] Then they would be told to give up all of their private property and money so that

[00:56:19] could be distributed equally to everyone.

[00:56:22] And they would do that.

[00:56:23] And they would say,

[00:56:24] okay,

[00:56:24] so they owned land.

[00:56:25] That land is everyone's now.

[00:56:26] If they owned cow,

[00:56:28] that cow is everyone's now.

[00:56:30] As they're going.

[00:56:31] You're in the cult now.

[00:56:33] As they're going along,

[00:56:34] every time they attack a temple,

[00:56:36] they take the gold and they would share it with everyone.

[00:56:38] So not only are they upending the system,

[00:56:40] not only are they attacking everything the old system stands for,

[00:56:43] they're also passing out all the money of the old system.

[00:56:46] And if you want to be popular in an area,

[00:56:49] going to a corrupt country and passing out all of the money from the corrupt people

[00:56:53] is definitely going to help you.

[00:56:55] And that's something that they're doing as they go.

[00:56:57] They're getting all of the old money and they're spreading it around in a very,

[00:57:00] I mean,

[00:57:01] honestly,

[00:57:02] proto-communist way.

[00:57:03] And I say that because even the communists will actually point to this guy.

[00:57:09] We'll talk about it later on,

[00:57:10] but Karl Marx was a big fan.

[00:57:12] Actually,

[00:57:12] he lived at the same time and wrote about what was happening.

[00:57:15] He said something to the effect of basically like,

[00:57:18] you know,

[00:57:18] we think that the great next government will be made in Europe,

[00:57:21] but look to the heavenly kingdom in China.

[00:57:23] That might be where we see the true change happening because all Karl Marx knew

[00:57:27] was that there was a guy equalizing everything in China and spreading money around.

[00:57:31] And he was kind of like,

[00:57:31] that's exactly what I want to do.

[00:57:33] On top of that,

[00:57:34] Chairman Mao and them will look to this movement later on.

[00:57:37] And they'll be like,

[00:57:38] this is,

[00:57:38] this was the early version of what we want to do,

[00:57:40] you know,

[00:57:40] minus the whole God and Bible part.

[00:57:42] So they become so convinced that Shang-Di is the God of the Bible,

[00:57:45] the universal God,

[00:57:46] not just of Westerners,

[00:57:47] but of everyone.

[00:57:48] And that he was once in China.

[00:57:50] And again,

[00:57:50] to a degree,

[00:57:51] there's truth.

[00:57:52] You know,

[00:57:53] cults,

[00:57:53] what's problematic about cults like this is there's truth.

[00:57:56] There is a Lord creator who's creator overall.

[00:57:58] He did create the whole world and all the people in it,

[00:58:01] not just the Westerners.

[00:58:02] There is a God for the people of China.

[00:58:04] And I don't know enough about Shang-Di to know if there's any roots back to the original

[00:58:08] God.

[00:58:09] Maybe somehow they had this name for the God of the Hebrews.

[00:58:11] I don't think so probably,

[00:58:12] but they're not wrong that there was a single deity God and he is the creator of all.

[00:58:17] These aspects are true.

[00:58:19] The problem is Hong then adds his own twist to theology.

[00:58:23] For example,

[00:58:24] where you and I believe sin started where Joel?

[00:58:27] Garden.

[00:58:29] Well,

[00:58:29] Hong says,

[00:58:30] no,

[00:58:31] sin starts when you don't understand the 10 commandments.

[00:58:34] He said,

[00:58:35] if you just understood the 10 commandments and you did the 10 commandments,

[00:58:38] you would never sin.

[00:58:39] And one thing you'll see in this movement is there is a complete lack of grace.

[00:58:43] Like grace is not accepted throughout this movement.

[00:58:45] So you had to follow the 10 commandments perfectly.

[00:58:47] And if you did,

[00:58:48] you're a good Christian.

[00:58:48] You love God.

[00:58:49] If you don't,

[00:58:50] you're bad.

[00:58:50] Now they wouldn't just worship by the way,

[00:58:52] either.

[00:58:52] They were always people of action.

[00:58:54] Whenever they moved into a region,

[00:58:56] they would take on like the local bandits.

[00:58:58] I told you these areas are covered in bandits.

[00:58:59] They would roll in and they would just take all the bandits out,

[00:59:03] freeing the people from these bandits.

[00:59:04] They would have started attacking them,

[00:59:06] going after the criminals and thugs,

[00:59:07] trying to create.

[00:59:08] Remember,

[00:59:08] they're the Taiping people,

[00:59:09] the great peace.

[00:59:10] They're trying to create a peace and they're doing the job that the government was supposed

[00:59:14] to do.

[00:59:14] The government's supposed to protect you from bandits.

[00:59:16] The government's not doing it.

[00:59:17] Here comes the Taiping into town with their swords and their weapons.

[00:59:19] They get rid of the bandits and bring your area peace.

[00:59:23] But they were also huge about getting rid of idol worship.

[00:59:26] If there was an idol, if there was a temple nearby, they would go and attack it.

[00:59:30] For example, there was a temple built by an old sorcerer.

[00:59:34] And the legend of this temple is so weird that I had to tell it.

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[01:00:36] This guy basically was a sorcerer and he had practiced magic his whole life.

[01:00:40] And he got a vision, quote unquote, from the gods that if he killed someone, he'd be blessed

[01:00:44] all his days.

[01:00:45] So the legend goes, he immediately went home and killed his own mom.

[01:00:48] And the prophecy came true.

[01:00:49] He was blessed all his days.

[01:00:51] However, the spot where he killed his mother was where they built the temple.

[01:00:55] Because after this guy died, even though he had all this magic and blessing, he basically

[01:00:58] turned into a demon because killing your mom is really bad.

[01:01:01] And so he lived as a demon in this temple, frightening the priests of that area.

[01:01:06] And the priests were so scared of this particular demon that when they went in, they usually

[01:01:09] bang gongs to alert the demons are there.

[01:01:12] The priests of this temple would just bang the gong the entire time they were in the

[01:01:15] temple because they were so scared that this dude would show up.

[01:01:19] And if people spoke evil of the temple.

[01:01:20] And so the legend goes, you would get sick in the nearby village.

[01:01:24] Nobody wanted to go near this guy.

[01:01:25] They were terrified of him.

[01:01:27] Well, Hong and the boys heard about this.

[01:01:29] And immediately him and his disciple, Feng Inshan, on the spot, just take off with their

[01:01:33] swords and charge over there.

[01:01:35] Just a small group of them.

[01:01:36] Like they are ready to go.

[01:01:37] And when they show up, they immediately take the priest hostages.

[01:01:40] They put the swords to them and tie them up.

[01:01:41] And then they make the priests watch while they destroy the temple.

[01:01:44] They destroy the idol.

[01:01:45] They destroy the vessels.

[01:01:46] They take the gold and put it in bags to give back to their people back home.

[01:01:50] Completely destroy everything.

[01:01:52] And it really reminds me of the story of Jehu from the Old Testament.

[01:01:56] Jehu's the guy who kills Queen Jezebel.

[01:01:59] He basically destroys all these idols for God.

[01:02:01] If you're not familiar with the story of Jehu, he's not a good guy.

[01:02:04] Like Jehu's a bad guy who kills a bunch of people and is bloodthirsty.

[01:02:08] But he's a bad guy who's killing the bad guys.

[01:02:11] So on some level, you're kind of rooting for him a little bit.

[01:02:14] You're like, yeah, get him.

[01:02:15] Because you don't like Jezebel either.

[01:02:17] You don't like these guys that he's killing.

[01:02:18] But also, you know Jehu's not a good guy either.

[01:02:20] And that's kind of what Hong feels like.

[01:02:22] Like you're like, yeah, get rid of the demon worshiping idols.

[01:02:25] That's good.

[01:02:25] I don't like those things either.

[01:02:27] And you kind of can't help but admire his boldness of just running into a temple with

[01:02:32] his swords out, you know, destroying everything.

[01:02:35] When everyone believed this was cursed and would hurt you, he has no fear and just destroys

[01:02:38] it.

[01:02:38] And there's a part of you kind of going, yeah, I like that.

[01:02:40] I do.

[01:02:41] I do wish we treated idolatry a little bit more that way.

[01:02:44] You know, he has no fear.

[01:02:45] But on the other side of it, he's leading a cult.

[01:02:48] So it's not exactly perfect.

[01:02:50] Once word gets out that he destroys this particular temple, the Qing government like puts up

[01:02:55] one imposter, says, find this guy.

[01:02:57] They can't do this.

[01:02:58] And the story gets even weirder because they're very upset he destroyed this temple until a

[01:03:03] child in the middle of a village one day is seized, quote unquote, by the demon.

[01:03:08] And then in a possessed voice tells everyone, leave him alone.

[01:03:11] These are sincere men.

[01:03:12] All you have to do is repair my image and it'll be fine.

[01:03:14] I like this guy.

[01:03:16] And I'm like, well, that's creepy as all get out.

[01:03:19] And it kind of reminds me of that story in Acts when Paul casts out the, you know, when

[01:03:23] the guys try to cast out that demon, the demon's like, Paul, I've heard of Jesus.

[01:03:27] I know, but who are you?

[01:03:28] And then attacks them, right?

[01:03:29] Like, imagine you have a demon possessed child being like, this guy's good.

[01:03:33] Keep him on my side.

[01:03:34] That's just so strange and creepy, isn't it?

[01:03:37] That's the kind of stories that even if we don't know if it's true or how much of it's

[01:03:41] true, those are the kind of stories associated with him.

[01:03:44] That's the stories people are hearing about him.

[01:03:46] And they're amazed.

[01:03:47] They've never heard anything like this kind of stuff.

[01:03:49] A guy who stands up to the priest, a guy who's not afraid of demons, a guy who, you

[01:03:54] know, demons are going, yeah, that's our guy.

[01:03:55] Now they're not asking the next question.

[01:03:57] Like, why are the demons a fan of this guy?

[01:03:59] Because that might be a question you might want to know.

[01:04:01] But you could see how a story like that would be exciting.

[01:04:04] Another story was Hong had written basically a satire attacking these temples that were

[01:04:09] in a cave nearby.

[01:04:10] These caves, these temples had been in a cave for like a thousand years.

[01:04:13] And there were these wooden temples that people would go worship at secretly.

[01:04:16] It was pagan temples.

[01:04:18] And Hong writes basically a satire making fun of them, how stupid they are, and says, give

[01:04:22] it a few more, give it a little while and they'll be destroyed.

[01:04:24] And a couple weeks later, these same temples were found to be infested with what are called

[01:04:28] white ants, which are really fast termites.

[01:04:31] And it destroys the entire system of the temples that had been up for a very long time,

[01:04:36] all within the course of just a few months.

[01:04:38] They just eat through all of the wood in this cave.

[01:04:40] And again, it's one of those things where, is the story true?

[01:04:43] I only know the propaganda that I read by him.

[01:04:45] But if it is, I mean, you could see how that would be pretty powerful.

[01:04:49] This guy called out a temple and like less than a year later, that temple is destroyed.

[01:04:52] This guy got into a fight with a demon and, you know, the demon says he's cool.

[01:04:57] It's fine.

[01:04:57] Don't worry about it.

[01:04:58] Like this just is going to trip you out.

[01:05:00] If you're living in China at the time and you're looking for mystical prophecies, this

[01:05:04] guy is your guy.

[01:05:09] The government of China during this time is extremely unstable.

[01:05:15] They have not been doing very well at all.

[01:05:18] For hundreds of years, the Qing empire honestly just held on by the grip of its, you know, barely

[01:05:23] holding on with all it had.

[01:05:25] And this is not a new thing.

[01:05:27] I'm not saying anything profound to say things were not good in China in the 1800s.

[01:05:31] But if things were bad in China, it was even worse in this region that hung in South China.

[01:05:37] They had bad harvests.

[01:05:38] This led to a lot of people living lives of crime.

[01:05:41] A lot of people living as bandits.

[01:05:43] This led to a lot of people frustrated.

[01:05:45] There were multiple civil wars that had already happened in this region and lots of people

[01:05:51] were upset.

[01:05:51] So the idea of striking back at the system, destroying the shrines and temples, getting

[01:05:56] back at everybody was very attractive.

[01:05:58] By the year 1849, Joel, for doing this headcount, by the year 1849, we know that he has at least

[01:06:05] 10,000 followers.

[01:06:08] Now, the Manchu government isn't really clear what to do with this movement.

[01:06:14] They're not super happy about it, but they're not also that upset with it either.

[01:06:19] Now, how do you feed 10,000 people?

[01:06:22] Well, Hong will basically start training his people military style.

[01:06:27] After his apostle gets arrested, he realizes the government's going to come after them

[01:06:31] at some point.

[01:06:31] So he begins to train them how to lead military runs.

[01:06:35] They would do little raids at different marketplaces, steal the supplies they needed.

[01:06:38] They had a few of their members that were blacksmiths, so they had them creating weapons

[01:06:43] for them.

[01:06:43] They would have been really working hard, basically, to very quickly turn themselves

[01:06:47] into a military unit that could defend themselves.

[01:06:50] Now, this part of China had a reputation since the Opium Wars with Britain for being a hideout

[01:06:56] land for bandits.

[01:06:57] In fact, there were 40 named bandit groups that ran this part of China, and they had all

[01:07:02] these really cool, exciting, and exotic names.

[01:07:04] For example, there was a gang of bandits called the Red Turbaned Followers, and they wore red

[01:07:09] turbans.

[01:07:10] Yes, you can imagine.

[01:07:10] There was another group called the Club Society of Yao Men, and so these guys would carry clubs.

[01:07:16] And so when you're in a region where there's all these different gangs that are really

[01:07:19] large, and we're talking each of these groups had tens of thousands of members, and they

[01:07:23] all have exotic names, the Taiping movement is really not going to stand out.

[01:07:27] It's just one more gang and a world of gangs in their mind.

[01:07:30] So in a way, I think this really kind of helped provide cover for them.

[01:07:33] They weren't really seen as that big a deal yet.

[01:07:36] They're just another bandit group to the eyes of the government to deal with at some point,

[01:07:41] but they're not even one of the big ones, so it's no big deal.

[01:07:44] The difference, though, being the Taiping movement isn't bandits robbing people.

[01:07:48] They're trying to bring peace and security to a very wildly chaotic place.

[01:07:52] If anything, if you're the government, you might even let the Taiping stay because they're

[01:07:56] fighting the other bandits for you.

[01:07:58] You know what I mean?

[01:07:58] They're kind of creating peace here.

[01:08:00] Now, the groups fighting the different bandits wouldn't be that big a deal.

[01:08:03] Except soon, the Taiping movement started moving towards Guangzhou, that giant major city complex

[01:08:08] that to this day is a capital of that part of China.

[01:08:12] And once you start getting close to the big cities, that's where things start to go bad.

[01:08:16] However, Hong's rebellion was kind of lucky because as they started moving towards Guangzhou,

[01:08:21] Guangzhou didn't really have time to pay attention to them because there was already another rebellion

[01:08:26] from another bandit group that was bigger than them happening at the same time.

[01:08:31] And so Guangzhou was completely distracted and had no attention for the Taiping movement.

[01:08:36] If you've ever seen like a criminal TV show, you know, think Criminal Minds or NICS or NCIS, sorry.

[01:08:43] One of those kind of things.

[01:08:44] You know what I'm talking about though?

[01:08:45] Those like investigative shows.

[01:08:47] There's almost always some episode they do where they run into like the Chinese mob.

[01:08:51] You know, imagine those movies where they had to deal with, they always, in America, it's usually

[01:08:55] called the Triads, right?

[01:08:57] Um, and there's always, there are different mob groups throughout history in Japan.

[01:09:00] They had the Yakuza and in China, they would usually call them the Triads.

[01:09:03] I did not know this, but Joel, these groups are so old.

[01:09:07] They go like back a thousand years, specifically one group that was the original, like the original

[01:09:14] Chinese mob was called the White Lotus Society.

[01:09:18] And this group goes all the way back.

[01:09:20] I don't know if you've ever heard of the Manicheans, but the Manicheans were who Augustine

[01:09:25] followed before he became a Christian.

[01:09:27] Well, the Manicheans moved east, moved east, moved east until they eventually moved into

[01:09:32] China and they kind of blended their religious beliefs with the Buddhists until they became

[01:09:36] the White Lotus Society.

[01:09:38] And to this day, these different like mob groups still stem from this one original society

[01:09:44] that actually multiple times over, almost overthrew China's government.

[01:09:49] Now, the group that is outside of Guangzhou is not the White Lotus Society.

[01:09:53] It's called the Heaven and Earth Society, which is very similarly named to our God Worshipper

[01:09:58] Society.

[01:09:58] But it's just one of these mob groups.

[01:10:00] They're basically a mix of Freemasons and the mob.

[01:10:04] They had a huge impact on world history.

[01:10:06] In fact, China has tried to exterminate them multiple times, but this just caused them to

[01:10:11] move overseas.

[01:10:11] At one point, so many of them moved to Malaysia that there were more Chinese people living in

[01:10:16] Malaysia than actually Malaysians, which almost caused Malaysia to like collapse.

[01:10:20] In Taiwan, the society that went there ended up becoming like a legit political party, cut

[01:10:26] off their ties to the mob, and now is one of the main political parties of Taiwan.

[01:10:31] And in China, every single elected official in China has to be a member of the People's

[01:10:36] Party except for one.

[01:10:38] There is one member in all of China who is not a member of the People's Party.

[01:10:42] I didn't know this.

[01:10:43] I thought everyone had to be a part of the Communist Party.

[01:10:45] But in one part of China, in South China, there is one member holding office who is not from

[01:10:50] the People's Party.

[01:10:52] He's from the Zhidong Party, which is one of these mob triad groups that basically got

[01:10:57] into power and has never been let go.

[01:10:59] So even to this day, these triad groups are still all over the world causing problems.

[01:11:05] And this Lotus Society group outside of Guangzhou is causing the army, the empire, to fight this

[01:11:11] army off.

[01:11:11] They're having these big battles going back and forth.

[01:11:14] And so no one's paying attention to what's happening with the bandits until basically

[01:11:18] one day Hong shows up outside the outskirts of Guangzhou with, at this point, 20,000 people

[01:11:25] following him in the year 1850.

[01:11:28] And he's not just showing up with like 20,000 followers and a mob.

[01:11:31] These people are split into battle units.

[01:11:33] They've been trained by Hong how to live as soldiers for the past couple of years.

[01:11:37] And they're ready to go and take over a city.

[01:11:40] And this is called the Gentian Uprising.

[01:11:42] This is the official beginning of them starting their war with the Qing empire.

[01:11:47] Now, the battle should have been short.

[01:11:49] The empire was trained how to deal with bandits.

[01:11:51] This was just a group of bandits, rebels, and scholars.

[01:11:54] It should have been no problem.

[01:11:56] However, they, and they had a large army coming in from Beijing that should have been able to

[01:12:00] deal with it.

[01:12:01] However, they do not.

[01:12:02] They get, they, they managed to survive this battle and fight, fight, fight on.

[01:12:06] At one point, Hong and Feng Yunshan are actually staying in a house, like doing their worship

[01:12:12] together when the Beijing army shows up and surrounds their entire house.

[01:12:16] And it looked like they were completely outnumbered and were about to die.

[01:12:20] They were kind of, you know, shooting down.

[01:12:21] It was almost an Alamo style battle where this looked like the end of the God worshiper society.

[01:12:25] And this would have been a really short episode if it were.

[01:12:28] But just in the last moment, Yang, the voice of God showed up with an extra reinforcement

[01:12:32] army and pushed the empire army back, allowing these guys to retreat and escape another day.

[01:12:37] A couple of weeks later, a large imperial army showed up with multiple generals to deal

[01:12:42] with the Taiping problem.

[01:12:43] They had heard what was going on.

[01:12:44] They got a bunch of people together, but the Hong army had hidden ambushes all over the

[01:12:48] region and attacked and wiped them out.

[01:12:51] But on the 11th day of January of the next year, so I believe we're in 1851 at this point,

[01:12:56] Hong made an announcement during the middle of this war that he was no longer going to

[01:13:00] make a movement of peace.

[01:13:01] He's now creating a Taiping heavenly kingdom.

[01:13:05] And he gave five rules to the military.

[01:13:07] If you're a part of my military now, you are following these five rules.

[01:13:10] You ready, Joel, for the five rules of how to run in the heavenly kingdom?

[01:13:14] Let me know.

[01:13:15] First, you must always follow orders.

[01:13:18] That's an easy one.

[01:13:20] Number two, men and women must be segregated at all times.

[01:13:24] Now, this one is going to lead to some really interesting consequences when they start capturing

[01:13:29] cities.

[01:13:30] Number three, I love this one.

[01:13:32] Do not make any mistakes.

[01:13:34] I love that one because I'm like, if you were going to make a mistake, it's a mistake.

[01:13:38] You wouldn't mean to make it in the first place.

[01:13:40] How could you?

[01:13:40] But you're not allowed to make mistakes.

[01:13:42] Number four, be fair and harmonious.

[01:13:45] And number five, never retreat during battle.

[01:13:49] Oh, all right.

[01:13:51] Hold on a second.

[01:13:51] Yes?

[01:13:53] All right.

[01:13:53] Bye, girl.

[01:13:54] Have fun.

[01:13:54] Bye.

[01:13:55] How's it going?

[01:13:55] It's going good.

[01:13:57] Oh, is that a cameo by Elise?

[01:13:59] Hey, Elise.

[01:14:01] Joel says hi.

[01:14:02] Oh, hey, Joel.

[01:14:03] Always nice to have Elise grace her show, cameo, dip in.

[01:14:08] Just to let us know that, you know, she's out there.

[01:14:11] She's out there.

[01:14:12] She's out there.

[01:14:13] She just put an episode out too.

[01:14:15] But yeah, no, Ezra has a play date.

[01:14:17] So it's morning my time and night Joel's time.

[01:14:20] All right.

[01:14:21] So here we go.

[01:14:22] Now they also, you're not allowed to retreat.

[01:14:24] This is a big deal because if your soldiers are not allowed to retreat or the heavenly king

[01:14:29] is basically saying they go to hell, that will affect how you battle quite a bit.

[01:14:33] They also now have a new uniform.

[01:14:36] The Qing had basically the Qing empire.

[01:14:38] Their soldiers are all forced to keep short hair.

[01:14:41] That was the Manchurian and Mongolian way.

[01:14:43] So in response, everyone in the heavenly kingdom is required to grow long hair.

[01:14:48] You have to have very long hair to make sure that you were with him.

[01:14:53] And you were also supposed to wear a red head covering to show whose side you were on.

[01:14:57] So if you're in the battle, red head covering, long hair, that's one of our guys.

[01:15:00] Now they did really well.

[01:15:02] They didn't win every battle.

[01:15:03] But I mean, considering the empire was literally military veterans that had been around for years,

[01:15:09] they did pretty good.

[01:15:10] And they won more battles than they lost.

[01:15:13] Their goal was to see, was the goal of the Beijing army was to siege and circle and destroy them.

[01:15:18] But the Taiping rebels were able to break through.

[01:15:20] And even though they did not take, oh, they actually, they do take Guangzhou.

[01:15:24] So they actually do take Guangzhou and eventually make their way out of Guangzhou,

[01:15:28] having not fully taken it, but kind of getting out of there anyway.

[01:15:31] This is one of those military battles where they win by not being destroyed.

[01:15:35] They didn't succeed in fully taking the city and keeping it,

[01:15:38] but they also didn't lose.

[01:15:40] And they were managed to able to fight for a full year almost against the Beijing empire and come out the other side alive and marching on.

[01:15:48] And that's to everyone who was watching and wondering, so what is this group?

[01:15:52] That was a huge victory for them.

[01:15:54] Many, many people start to join the society now because not only are they winning court cases,

[01:15:59] not only are they giving away all their money, but they're not getting destroyed.

[01:16:02] They're winning.

[01:16:03] They're fighting battles of the Qing empire and they're coming out alive on the other side.

[01:16:07] You know, if you were, if you were watching a sports team, it's one thing when they come together

[01:16:12] and they're the new guys on the block and they have some really good early practices.

[01:16:15] It's another thing when they survive their first game against a much, much tougher opponent.

[01:16:20] And you might start to think, okay, this is a team, a group I could get, I could get behind.

[01:16:25] Now, early on the heaven and earth society, the God worshippers society,

[01:16:29] soldiers had joined up with them as well.

[01:16:30] So remember that other White Lotus Society group?

[01:16:33] They actually joined up with them.

[01:16:34] Many of them said, hey, we saw what you were doing in Guangzhou.

[01:16:36] We tried to take it and failed, but we like what you're doing.

[01:16:39] So some of these societies are specifically joining up with Hong and Hong doesn't mind.

[01:16:44] Even though he told women and men they couldn't be together,

[01:16:46] there were two women generals that had thousands of men each.

[01:16:49] And he was like, you can keep your, you can keep your men.

[01:16:51] I don't mind.

[01:16:52] That's fine with me.

[01:16:53] The triads will actually come back a couple of years later in the middle of this rebellion.

[01:16:57] And they will try again to overthrow a city in what is called the Red Turban Revolt.

[01:17:01] It will lead to 50,000 men attacking a city and 200,000 people dying.

[01:17:06] So these triad groups, they never really go away.

[01:17:09] And to this day, as I said, they're still out there in the world.

[01:17:11] And they all stem from way back when in the ancient days of the Manicheans,

[01:17:16] which is, in my opinion, kind of crazy how just every, how connected everything is,

[01:17:20] how things like that never fully go away.

[01:17:23] After surviving these battles, Hong named himself the Heavenly King.

[01:17:26] He was not an emperor though.

[01:17:28] He's like, only God can be the emperor.

[01:17:30] I'm just a king.

[01:17:31] But then he named his wife, the Empress.

[01:17:34] So I'm going to, wait a second.

[01:17:35] I'm the king, but my wife over there is the Empress, but only God's the emperor.

[01:17:39] Hmm.

[01:17:40] As he's setting up his kingdom and going, he also gives four titles out.

[01:17:44] He gives out a king of the East, a king of the West, a king of the North, and a king of the South.

[01:17:47] And you probably won't be surprised to find that he makes the king of the East,

[01:17:50] someone you've already heard of, Yang.

[01:17:52] Feng.

[01:17:52] And he makes the king of the North, somebody you've already heard of, Feng Yunshan.

[01:17:57] And the king of the West is that Chao guy.

[01:17:59] And the South is another guy.

[01:18:00] We'll talk about him more later when he comes up.

[01:18:02] But each of these guys that you've been hearing from are now parts of this great kingly military

[01:18:07] unit that's now marching North up out of South China and heading on its way.

[01:18:12] Now, in the early days, the military wasn't like super strong with guns and stuff.

[01:18:16] They tended to just use swords, spears, and they had like firework grenades that they would

[01:18:20] use to distract their enemies when they stabbed them.

[01:18:23] And that was pretty much all they had.

[01:18:25] They tried to get guns and they will work hard to get guns and firearms from the foreign empires.

[01:18:29] However, you have to get them to sell them to them.

[01:18:31] And that's not always the easiest to do.

[01:18:33] They also have a very early like machine gun called the Jingol, which you can kind of set

[01:18:38] up and shoot in a row.

[01:18:39] And they're pretty good at using that.

[01:18:41] So they're doing everything they can here to make themselves a military unit.

[01:18:44] Now, one thing that helps them is all of their guys are trained on military books.

[01:18:50] When you had to take those civil service exams, you had to read a bunch of military books

[01:18:53] for thousands of years on military strategy.

[01:18:56] And all of these guys pretty much joined up with Hong.

[01:18:59] And so he has thousands and thousands of people who spent their entire life growing up reading

[01:19:03] military strategy books on how to attack your enemy.

[01:19:07] So they're applying all these things that they've memorized from books as they go.

[01:19:11] And it's one of the reasons they're not easy to defeat is they have all these, you know,

[01:19:16] art of war, Sun Tzu kind of stuff in their heads that they've been reading for their entire lives.

[01:19:20] And they finally have an outlet to actually try these things out on.

[01:19:24] Now, one thing that gave the Taiping Rebellion an edge too was that they were 100% merit-based.

[01:19:29] You, your family name, who you were before did not matter.

[01:19:33] You could be an orphan, but if you're the voice of God, you're now the voice of God and you're

[01:19:36] a king of the West, right?

[01:19:37] Like you, it doesn't matter where you come from.

[01:19:39] In the military, the only thing that mattered was how good you were at fighting.

[01:19:44] And the Qing army was completely the opposite.

[01:19:46] Everything for them was 100% based off family, money, and connections.

[01:19:49] Their leaders bought their way in.

[01:19:51] And the military was where you went when you couldn't get in anywhere else.

[01:19:54] It was kind of like your last resort.

[01:19:55] Nobody really wanted to be there.

[01:19:57] So they have a culture of the Beijing Qing empire military.

[01:20:00] These people who are fighting them who don't want to be there.

[01:20:02] They're miserable.

[01:20:03] They're unhappy.

[01:20:04] And on the other side, you have the Taiping people who are fighting for their lives.

[01:20:07] They're making money.

[01:20:07] This is the best moment they've ever had.

[01:20:09] They're getting to apply their strategies.

[01:20:11] I mean, these are pretty much as opposite of army conditions and morale conditions as you

[01:20:15] can possibly have.

[01:20:16] Now, over time, the movement becomes more and more powerful.

[01:20:20] As they're marching north, they're kind of conquering little towns.

[01:20:23] They're telling people about their religion.

[01:20:25] And by the year 1851 or so, they have 40,000 people who are armed, just men, marching with

[01:20:32] them north as they go.

[01:20:33] And this army is heading for Shanghai.

[01:20:37] Now, they started in the southern part of China.

[01:20:39] They're marching for Shanghai.

[01:20:40] And I realized that if you're an American or you're maybe even a European, you're listening

[01:20:44] to this, you don't have a map in front of you.

[01:20:46] You may not know how far those two distances are from each other.

[01:20:49] So I want you to imagine a dot in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico.

[01:20:53] If you could picture a map, you can put a dot in the Gulf of Mexico.

[01:20:57] And I want you to picture a dot over in Washington, D.C.

[01:21:00] That's the distance they're currently marching to get where they're trying to go.

[01:21:05] They're walking there, just marching there as soldiers, grabbing food and people as they

[01:21:10] go.

[01:21:10] So that's how far they have to go to get where they started in China to where they're

[01:21:15] going in Shanghai.

[01:21:16] That's not a short trip if you're looking at it.

[01:21:18] And how many are they at this point?

[01:21:21] At this point, there are 40,000 armed men by the year 1852.

[01:21:25] So again, I mean, this guy, in the course of four years, he went from, you know, a couple

[01:21:29] friends.

[01:21:30] Six years ago, he was a couple friends.

[01:21:32] You know, four years ago, he was 1,000.

[01:21:34] Two years ago, he was 10,000.

[01:21:36] And now he's up to 40,000 just soldiers in his army as he goes.

[01:21:40] I mean, this is growing fast.

[01:21:43] Now, as they were passing a city named Chuenzhou, not important really what the name of the city

[01:21:49] is.

[01:21:49] But as they were passing, a Qing guard on a wall who was watching them go by took a shot

[01:21:54] at one of the people in those kingly chairs.

[01:21:57] And this is just one of those moments, again, where one random person completely changes the

[01:22:02] course of history because his one fired bullet lands and hits our guy, Feng Yunshan, king

[01:22:09] of the south, and kills him.

[01:22:11] One of Hong's earliest guys, his first disciple, the guy he'd left in the mountains, the guy

[01:22:16] who won the court case, the guy who's been just, from the beginning, one of the most important

[01:22:20] people on Hong's team, dies because of a random guard pulling a random trigger as a

[01:22:26] random sniper and just happens to kill this guy.

[01:22:28] And one of the most important people in Hong's entire group.

[01:22:31] And not only is he one of the most important people, this guy was the administrator.

[01:22:34] This guy was the guy who knew how to manage and run things.

[01:22:37] Because losing this guy is huge.

[01:22:39] I can't help but think, like, how would history have been different if this guy had not pulled

[01:22:42] the trigger?

[01:22:43] Because Feng Yunshan was in many ways the brains of the entire outfit.

[01:22:48] Gotcha.

[01:22:49] But this isn't one of his core group.

[01:22:52] Yeah, it was.

[01:22:53] It was his core guy.

[01:22:54] It was the guy that he left in the mountains that was preaching to the people.

[01:22:57] It was his king of the south guy.

[01:22:59] I mean, this guy was his top dog.

[01:23:01] So if you have your list of names, cross off Feng Yunshan.

[01:23:03] He has just been killed by a random sniper bullet just out of nowhere, completely by chance.

[01:23:09] Literally just one man in history watching a bunch of soldiers pass by, picks up his gun

[01:23:13] and goes, I can kill one of them and shoots one.

[01:23:16] Now the typing rebels responded by burning down the city and killing everyone inside.

[01:23:21] Not everyone, but pretty much everyone.

[01:23:23] And so literally thousands and thousands and thousands of people died.

[01:23:27] And Feng Yunshan, the brains of the outfit, is now gone.

[01:23:29] All because of one random guard pulled a trigger.

[01:23:32] Now just a little further up, as they're marching away from this encounter,

[01:23:36] they end up walking into a Qing ambush.

[01:23:38] And this ambush goes terribly for the Taipings.

[01:23:41] They survive, but they lose 10,000 soldiers.

[01:23:44] They were completely caught off guard.

[01:23:46] And many of these soldiers that were there are the original,

[01:23:49] like his original most religious zealots that had been there since the early days.

[01:23:53] So when he comes out of this little trek, basically,

[01:23:56] where the sniper bullet hits and the ambush a few days later,

[01:23:59] Hong has lost some of his most religious, most extremist supporters completely,

[01:24:04] which is a real, you know, a bummer for him.

[01:24:07] Eventually, the Taipings move out of South China and begin to move into

[01:24:11] what is kind of the middle of China.

[01:24:13] And they capture cities as they go.

[01:24:15] When they capture a city, they basically take it over.

[01:24:17] They raid it of supplies.

[01:24:18] They ask people to join them.

[01:24:20] They give out money and food.

[01:24:22] And then they kind of move on.

[01:24:23] They don't ever stay in one city long.

[01:24:25] Part of their goal is to basically say, this is our area.

[01:24:28] We're putting a flag over it.

[01:24:29] We'll protect it if it's attacked.

[01:24:31] But like, meanwhile, we're going to keep moving.

[01:24:33] And this is actually really smart.

[01:24:35] If they parked somewhere, then the Beijing armies could attack them.

[01:24:38] But because they're always moving, they're always getting fresh soldiers,

[01:24:41] they're always getting fresh supplies.

[01:24:42] The only thing is it's dangerous.

[01:24:44] If you fail at taking a city, you could, you know,

[01:24:46] end up being destroyed right then and there.

[01:24:48] Now, many think, now the generals that were sent to capture him

[01:24:51] had failed so often that Beijing brought these generals back

[01:24:54] and had them executed, you guys have been failing to stop the typing movement.

[01:24:57] We're going to send some more people.

[01:24:59] This time they send in another group of people.

[01:25:02] Now, and a lot of people think, by the way,

[01:25:03] killing these generals were unfair.

[01:25:05] The generals they had sent from Beijing were used to fighting Mongolians.

[01:25:08] They had no idea how to deal with Southern Chinese warfare.

[01:25:11] And so they were like, we're not bandit killers.

[01:25:13] Like, we're used to Mongolians.

[01:25:15] These guys fight completely different.

[01:25:16] Regardless, Beijing has them executed

[01:25:19] and send some more people to deal with them.

[01:25:21] Now, one of these people seemed like a good guy to send

[01:25:24] because he had just captured the red turban chiefs.

[01:25:27] He seemed like he'd be the guy to do it.

[01:25:29] However, he also fails to capture him

[01:25:31] and will also be executed shortly thereafter.

[01:25:34] And Beijing begins to realize the Taiping are not a small group.

[01:25:38] Now, not long afterwards, the Taiping move into yet another

[01:25:41] really wealthy, happy part of China.

[01:25:43] They grow massively and 50,000 people from just this one region.

[01:25:47] So they were 40,000, 10,000 die.

[01:25:49] They add 50,000 people just entering this one region.

[01:25:53] But most of them really aren't joining for religious reasons.

[01:25:56] They're not really like about the whole Hong is the brother of Jesus stuff.

[01:26:00] They really just like the, hey, we're redistributing property and making money stuff.

[01:26:04] That's the part they're really a big fan of.

[01:26:06] But as they take in some cities, they fail to take others.

[01:26:09] They keep moving.

[01:26:10] And the Beijing army is just not able to capture them.

[01:26:13] And every time they do, they fail.

[01:26:15] Now, as they're passing by yet another city, another sniper out of nowhere,

[01:26:21] just shoots one of them, sees them in the chair.

[01:26:23] I know.

[01:26:24] And just kills Chiao Chiao Gui.

[01:26:27] That's the king of the West.

[01:26:28] The voice of God has just been snipered by a random guard.

[01:26:32] And almost the exact same thing plays out where the army turns around and destroys the city.

[01:26:35] And they can't believe that now two of their kings have been killed

[01:26:38] just by random snipers shooting at them as they go by.

[01:26:43] So we've now...

[01:26:44] So this was Yang?

[01:26:45] This one here was Chiao.

[01:26:47] Chiao Chiao Gui is young.

[01:26:48] Oh, Chiao.

[01:26:48] The Jesus voice.

[01:26:50] No, this is the voice of God.

[01:26:51] The voice of Jesus is young.

[01:26:54] Oh, no, no.

[01:26:55] You're right.

[01:26:55] No, no.

[01:26:56] You're right.

[01:26:57] That was my notes wrong.

[01:26:59] You're right.

[01:26:59] This is the voice of Jesus.

[01:27:00] So the voice of...

[01:27:01] It's so weird.

[01:27:02] Voice of Jesus, voice of God.

[01:27:03] It's such a weird thing to say.

[01:27:04] But anyway, yes.

[01:27:05] The voice of Jesus had been snipered.

[01:27:07] Chiao is now out of the picture.

[01:27:09] So two of his kings are killed by random snipers as they travel up north,

[01:27:14] which is, again, just such a random part of the story.

[01:27:17] How just, you know, people living their lives, doing random things,

[01:27:21] causes big events in the story to change.

[01:27:24] Now, one of the great signs of success is they end up capturing a city you may have heard of called Wuhan.

[01:27:29] Wuhan is a city that many people have heard of today because of COVID-19.

[01:27:34] It is seen as the starting place of it.

[01:27:36] However, back then, in ancient days, it was just a large and powerful city.

[01:27:41] And by the way, it's still a pretty large city.

[01:27:43] It's got millions and millions of people in it.

[01:27:45] When they took Wuhan, they gained tens of thousands of new followers.

[01:27:49] They actually gained an entire fleet.

[01:27:51] Wuhan had a bunch of boats.

[01:27:52] So now they have a fleet on there that they can use.

[01:27:55] They found massive amounts of gold.

[01:27:57] And they are now, like, fully decked out.

[01:27:59] Wuhan was a great win for them.

[01:28:01] And they now set their sights on what will be a really important city called Nanjing,

[01:28:06] or as it's often pronounced in the West, Nanking.

[01:28:09] You may have heard of this city.

[01:28:10] It is famous from a movie called The Rape of Nanking.

[01:28:13] It used to be the old capital of China during the Ming empires.

[01:28:18] And it was one of the most important cities to them culturally you could speak.

[01:28:23] We're talking like a Philadelphia.

[01:28:24] Like, what would it mean to see, you know, the Liberty Bell fallen in the streets?

[01:28:29] How much that would probably affect Americans to watch that?

[01:28:32] That's the level of, you know, importance, but way more so,

[01:28:35] that Nanjing has on the people.

[01:28:38] They end up going 600 miles with their big navy.

[01:28:41] Now they're up to, now Hong, you're asking, where are we at now?

[01:28:44] They have 120,000 soldiers marching with them to take this city

[01:28:48] and raid it and conquer it as they go.

[01:28:51] And one thing that's really interesting is like these people,

[01:28:53] as they take cities, they give the gold out to everyone.

[01:28:56] So like when you see the Taiping army showing up,

[01:28:59] it's not uncommon for them.

[01:29:00] They have their red turbans on.

[01:29:01] They have their long hair.

[01:29:03] And then they're wearing like silk robes.

[01:29:04] And they're wearing like gold bracelets.

[01:29:06] And they're wearing like, you know,

[01:29:08] like stuff you would see really rich people wearing,

[01:29:10] except it's just common soldiers wearing it

[01:29:12] because they're giving it out as they go.

[01:29:14] And just what a weird sight that probably was for the Beijing people

[01:29:17] as they see these armies rolling up with like all their bling,

[01:29:19] basically out having a good time.

[01:29:21] And you're going, what on earth are these guys doing?

[01:29:23] As they take cities, they don't really conquer them,

[01:29:26] but they do leave like tax collectors back behind

[01:29:28] to just enforce tolls and make money.

[01:29:30] But otherwise they just keep it moving.

[01:29:32] Now, they did stick to the religious side of things.

[01:29:35] For example, Buddhist priests, temple priests,

[01:29:38] as they went, they forced them to give up their Buddhism,

[01:29:41] forced them to give up their temple life.

[01:29:44] If you were a Buddhist or temple priest and they met you,

[01:29:47] they would basically put up a sword to you and say,

[01:29:49] quit being a Buddhist or temple priest,

[01:29:50] or we'll execute you.

[01:29:52] However, they specifically never attacked mosques.

[01:29:55] And the reason for that was not that they agreed with mosques or Islam,

[01:29:58] but they knew that the Islamic people were really close to a rebellion themselves.

[01:30:02] And the Taiping people kind of realized that the Muslims rebel,

[01:30:06] then it will be harder for the Qing empire to fight us.

[01:30:08] So they were very supportive of the Muslims rebelling.

[01:30:10] They were like, hey, Muslims, have you guys thought of rebelling?

[01:30:13] Here's some weapons.

[01:30:14] Just kind of think about it as you go.

[01:30:16] Another thing they were against was foot binding.

[01:30:18] And whenever they would move into a city,

[01:30:20] a lot of times they would try to unbind the women's feet,

[01:30:23] which is in itself a very painful process.

[01:30:25] But they were anti-foot binding.

[01:30:27] They were trying to get the foot binders to stop.

[01:30:29] And that's pretty good.

[01:30:30] Christians actually are the ones who got foot binding to end in China,

[01:30:33] which is really good because one in six children that had their feet bound died.

[01:30:38] So one in six women died from foot binding because of that awful practice.

[01:30:41] So good for the Taiping people for helping to put an end to that.

[01:30:44] Although they weren't the ones that really officially ended it,

[01:30:46] but they did help it.

[01:30:47] They would also raid everywhere as they went,

[01:30:49] every temple, every relic given to the poor as they traveled.

[01:30:52] And by the time they reached Nanjing,

[01:30:54] they had to cross through several rich provinces.

[01:30:56] So they were coming in very wealthy.

[01:30:58] They were coming in with lots of soldiers.

[01:31:00] Again, their men are wearing like silk garments and stuff.

[01:31:03] They're having the time of their lives.

[01:31:05] And when the Taiping people reached Nanjing,

[01:31:07] this is kind of a real turning point in the rebellion.

[01:31:10] Up until this point,

[01:31:11] they're just moving from city to city,

[01:31:13] kind of traveling and taking as they go.

[01:31:15] So when they reach Nanjing,

[01:31:16] they're going to make Nanjing their home.

[01:31:18] This is going to be their capital.

[01:31:20] So this becomes a real change of pace for them.

[01:31:22] This was the old capital of the Ming Empire.

[01:31:25] The Qing had moved their empire to Beijing,

[01:31:27] although it had been in Shenyang for a couple of years.

[01:31:30] I saw their old castle there when I lived in Shenyang.

[01:31:32] It's pretty cool.

[01:31:33] However, Nanjing is where they want to have a base.

[01:31:36] They want to start setting up.

[01:31:37] One of their goals is to start reaching out to foreign powers.

[01:31:40] They're like, hey, we're a Christian kingdom.

[01:31:42] Why don't places like Britain, America, France support us?

[01:31:46] Because we're going to make China Christian like us,

[01:31:49] and they should be our friends during this time.

[01:31:51] And so they think Nanjing will be a really good place

[01:31:53] to kind of open that gateway of communication with them

[01:31:57] to the Western powers.

[01:31:59] Now, at the time, Nanjing...

[01:32:00] Would you say they are controlling the country?

[01:32:06] Are they controlling a region?

[01:32:07] How much of China are they rolling in now?

[01:32:11] At this point, most of South China,

[01:32:14] like a strip of north to south China of cities

[01:32:17] has their flag over it.

[01:32:20] How much they're actually in control of those places,

[01:32:23] not super, but they are paying tributes back to them.

[01:32:27] They've been getting rid of the temple priests

[01:32:29] and the Buddhist priests as they went.

[01:32:32] So, I mean, to a degree, yes, they're in control.

[01:32:34] They set their rules up.

[01:32:35] How much are the average people on the ground

[01:32:37] living under their rule?

[01:32:38] I think it depends on how close you are to the army.

[01:32:41] Like, I think the cities down at the south

[01:32:42] have pretty much already overthrown it

[01:32:44] and have moved back to life as it was.

[01:32:45] I think the cities that are really close to Nanjing

[01:32:48] are doing exactly what, you know,

[01:32:50] these guys are telling them to because they have to.

[01:32:52] And so they are impacting the lives

[01:32:55] of millions of people,

[01:32:56] but they're not like,

[01:32:59] they're not running a country,

[01:33:00] they're running a country at war.

[01:33:01] So imagine how much power did the union

[01:33:05] really have over the lives of people

[01:33:07] in the Midwest during the civil war, right?

[01:33:10] Like technically you were living under their rules,

[01:33:12] but you know, if you got out far enough,

[01:33:14] nobody could tell you what to do, right?

[01:33:15] Because they're in the middle of a civil war.

[01:33:17] They don't have time to chase you down.

[01:33:18] That's kind of what I see happening here,

[01:33:20] where there's a war happening.

[01:33:22] If you're close to their capital,

[01:33:24] you do have to do what they say.

[01:33:25] They'll come for you.

[01:33:26] But if you're far away,

[01:33:27] they're so busy winning this war,

[01:33:29] or fighting this war at least,

[01:33:30] that they're not really paying that much attention.

[01:33:33] They gave you rules,

[01:33:34] they want you to follow them,

[01:33:35] but they're not checking up every day or anything.

[01:33:38] Okay.

[01:33:40] Now at the time,

[01:33:41] Nanjing is a really imposing fortress.

[01:33:43] They had one million people living inside of it.

[01:33:46] They had a 25 mile wall

[01:33:49] that goes around completely around the entire city

[01:33:51] that is 40 feet high.

[01:33:54] This actually made it one of the most fortified cities

[01:33:56] in the entire world at that time.

[01:33:59] I mean, think of how much work it takes

[01:34:00] to build a 25 mile wall

[01:34:03] and to make it 40 feet high.

[01:34:05] And you can get why there's not that many other cities

[01:34:07] that had a wall like that.

[01:34:08] Now the general sent to fight the Taiping army

[01:34:11] went out to meet him with his own fleet

[01:34:13] and his own force.

[01:34:14] But when he saw how big the Taiping army was,

[01:34:16] he just retreated and basically said,

[01:34:18] I don't have the forces to fight.

[01:34:19] And his entire army left.

[01:34:21] Now, if you're living in Nanjing

[01:34:22] and you see the guys who were sent to defend you leaving,

[01:34:25] you're scared.

[01:34:26] And so you leave as well.

[01:34:27] And so many of the people that were living there

[01:34:29] ran away too.

[01:34:31] This left basically 20,000 Nanjing soldiers

[01:34:34] to fight the entire army,

[01:34:36] maybe even as high as 40,000

[01:34:37] to fight this very large army

[01:34:39] that was coming up on them.

[01:34:41] Now, I think it's really interesting

[01:34:42] how they take the city.

[01:34:44] There's this giant wall.

[01:34:45] How do you take a wall?

[01:34:46] You can try to climb over it.

[01:34:48] But they have all these random people

[01:34:50] that Taiping had been collecting.

[01:34:51] For example,

[01:34:52] they have lots of just average everyday people

[01:34:54] like you and me.

[01:34:55] And one of the groups they had collected

[01:34:57] was they had a lot of miners.

[01:34:58] Miners who used to mine these tough mines

[01:35:00] who had basically given it up

[01:35:02] to join the Taiping rebellion.

[01:35:04] And these miners look at the situation and go,

[01:35:06] we can dig a tunnel under this wall

[01:35:08] and get you to the other side

[01:35:09] like really easily.

[01:35:10] No problem.

[01:35:11] And so these coal miners just dig down,

[01:35:14] dig under the wall

[01:35:15] and show up on the other side.

[01:35:17] Now, digging a tunnel is dangerous.

[01:35:19] And obviously, if you open a tunnel

[01:35:20] into the middle of a city,

[01:35:21] a bunch of soldiers could be waiting for you.

[01:35:23] And so the Taiping cut out

[01:35:25] a bunch of paper soldiers

[01:35:26] and line them on the other side of the city.

[01:35:29] So all of the guards of the city

[01:35:30] are looking on one side

[01:35:31] where they see all these people standing there.

[01:35:33] But all these people are just paper people

[01:35:35] that they cut out

[01:35:37] to like a bunch of 2D cutouts,

[01:35:38] basically standing on the other side

[01:35:40] that I guess people moved around and stuff.

[01:35:42] I don't know what it would have looked like.

[01:35:43] It would have looked weird.

[01:35:44] But the entire army was facing

[01:35:46] that side of the wall

[01:35:47] watching these 2D cutouts,

[01:35:49] trying to figure out what's going on

[01:35:50] with this very frozen standstill army

[01:35:52] while the coal miners break through

[01:35:54] in a giant tunnel

[01:35:54] on the other side of the city.

[01:35:56] By the time the people of Nanjing

[01:35:57] figured out what had happened,

[01:35:59] it was way too late.

[01:36:00] Now the soldier now,

[01:36:01] and again, it's almost like a comedy.

[01:36:03] Like it's almost comical.

[01:36:04] Like, could you imagine all these soldiers

[01:36:05] standing there watching

[01:36:06] like these paper people?

[01:36:07] But it doesn't end up being very comical

[01:36:10] for them how it ends.

[01:36:11] When the Taiping take over,

[01:36:12] they kill all of the soldiers.

[01:36:14] And the reason they kill them

[01:36:15] is they say,

[01:36:15] look, remember,

[01:36:16] God gave us a vision.

[01:36:17] We are to kill the Manchu.

[01:36:19] The Manchu people are bad.

[01:36:20] You guys work for them.

[01:36:21] So we have to kill you.

[01:36:23] Now I read an account

[01:36:24] that said they killed 20,000 soldiers

[01:36:25] when they took over the city.

[01:36:27] A Wikipedia source, however,

[01:36:28] says it was more like 40,000 soldiers.

[01:36:30] And they killed their families too.

[01:36:32] And they probably burned them to death.

[01:36:34] I don't know which of those 2 accounts is true.

[01:36:36] But if you're living as a citizen of Nanjing,

[01:36:39] one day the army runs away

[01:36:41] because they don't want to fight these guys.

[01:36:42] The next day,

[01:36:43] many of your people run away.

[01:36:44] Then the next day,

[01:36:45] they break in through a tunnel

[01:36:46] and they kill 40,000 people

[01:36:48] by burning them to death.

[01:36:49] If that's true,

[01:36:51] you're very afraid of these people.

[01:36:53] And you're probably living

[01:36:54] in absolute terror

[01:36:55] of who is coming through those gates

[01:36:57] to meet you.

[01:36:59] On top of that, though,

[01:37:00] remember,

[01:37:01] the Taiping people believe

[01:37:02] these people are demons.

[01:37:03] So they have to get rid of anybody

[01:37:04] that gets in their way.

[01:37:06] But it's a scary message for sure.

[01:37:08] On the end of March of the year,

[01:37:10] I believe 1851,

[01:37:12] Hong is carried in

[01:37:13] on a giant golden,

[01:37:16] basically parade.

[01:37:18] It's called palanquin,

[01:37:19] but it's like a giant thing.

[01:37:20] He's carried in,

[01:37:21] almost like he's on a chariot

[01:37:23] into the city.

[01:37:24] A giant parade is going before him.

[01:37:25] He's in a yellow robe.

[01:37:27] He has already declared himself

[01:37:29] the heavenly king.

[01:37:30] And if you're him,

[01:37:32] you gotta be thinking like,

[01:37:32] this is basically my dream.

[01:37:34] Like I had this vision

[01:37:35] a decade ago to almost

[01:37:36] that I would be in a parade

[01:37:38] and that I would be the king

[01:37:39] and all this stuff would happen.

[01:37:40] And as he's entering

[01:37:41] the ancient capital of China,

[01:37:43] Nanjing,

[01:37:44] he's got this huge parade going,

[01:37:46] everyone's cheering.

[01:37:46] He's probably like,

[01:37:47] oh my goodness,

[01:37:48] this is the dream.

[01:37:49] It came true.

[01:37:50] And you can't deny it

[01:37:52] on some level

[01:37:52] that dream kind of

[01:37:53] did come true for him.

[01:37:55] Now, once he starts

[01:37:56] taking back over,

[01:37:57] he immediately reinstates

[01:37:58] the civil service exams

[01:38:00] so that they can get

[01:38:01] the country back on its feet.

[01:38:02] But instead of

[01:38:03] the Chinese Confucianism,

[01:38:05] you're now required

[01:38:06] to memorize Bible verses,

[01:38:07] Christian verses,

[01:38:08] hymns,

[01:38:09] all the same amount of work.

[01:38:10] But now it's all,

[01:38:11] you know,

[01:38:11] stuff from the Bible.

[01:38:12] Now, his goal

[01:38:13] was to take Beijing.

[01:38:14] If he took Beijing,

[01:38:15] he got rid of the Qing Empire,

[01:38:17] Beijing,

[01:38:18] anyway, you get it.

[01:38:18] And in his mind,

[01:38:20] he could take it on.

[01:38:20] But Nanjing is not

[01:38:22] going to be strong enough

[01:38:22] to take over Beijing.

[01:38:24] He does not,

[01:38:24] he realized just by

[01:38:25] how much work it took over

[01:38:26] to take over Nanjing

[01:38:27] that he was not strong enough.

[01:38:29] So he decides to bunker down

[01:38:30] and kind of hold down

[01:38:32] the fort in Nanjing

[01:38:33] for a while,

[01:38:33] build up his forces,

[01:38:35] get his men ready,

[01:38:36] and try to weaken Beijing

[01:38:37] in the meantime.

[01:38:38] Now, one way you could

[01:38:39] weaken Beijing

[01:38:42] was Beijing got a lot

[01:38:43] of its supplies

[01:38:44] from something called

[01:38:45] the Grand Canal.

[01:38:46] If you've ever heard

[01:38:47] of the Great Wall of China,

[01:38:48] it's a big deal, right?

[01:38:49] You've heard of the

[01:38:49] Great Wall of China, Joel?

[01:38:50] I have.

[01:38:52] It's a famous thing.

[01:38:53] Something you might be

[01:38:54] less familiar with

[01:38:55] that is also famous in China

[01:38:56] is called the Grand Canal.

[01:38:59] It is a 1,100 mile,

[01:39:01] 1,800 kilometer canal

[01:39:03] that was built,

[01:39:05] you know,

[01:39:05] as canals are

[01:39:06] by humans over time.

[01:39:08] They started building it

[01:39:09] in the 5th century BC

[01:39:11] and it took 1,000 years

[01:39:13] to finish.

[01:39:14] It goes all the way

[01:39:15] from Hangzhou

[01:39:16] where it starts

[01:39:16] all the way up to Beijing.

[01:39:18] And once again,

[01:39:18] I know if you're an American,

[01:39:19] you don't have a map

[01:39:20] in front of you,

[01:39:20] you probably don't know

[01:39:21] what that distance means.

[01:39:22] So I want you to imagine

[01:39:24] the tip of North Carolina,

[01:39:25] right where North Carolina

[01:39:26] meets the Atlantic Ocean

[01:39:27] and just imagine

[01:39:29] with just shovels

[01:39:31] and human power,

[01:39:32] you don't have machines,

[01:39:33] digging a canal

[01:39:34] that goes all the way up

[01:39:36] past the Great Lakes

[01:39:37] into Canada.

[01:39:39] And if you've reached

[01:39:40] that canal,

[01:39:41] that's how long

[01:39:42] this canal was.

[01:39:43] It took 14 centuries

[01:39:45] before it was finished

[01:39:47] and it's,

[01:39:48] I mean,

[01:39:48] it is honestly

[01:39:49] in some ways

[01:39:49] a miracle

[01:39:50] that something like that

[01:39:51] could even exist.

[01:39:52] Again,

[01:39:52] long before drills,

[01:39:53] long before tractors,

[01:39:54] long before the equipment

[01:39:55] to build something like that

[01:39:57] even makes sense.

[01:39:57] While they were building

[01:39:58] the Great Wall,

[01:39:59] they also built this thing

[01:40:00] called the Grand Canal.

[01:40:01] I have seen it

[01:40:02] with my own eyes.

[01:40:03] They're still using it

[01:40:04] to this day

[01:40:05] with barges and stuff.

[01:40:06] It is,

[01:40:07] when we used to live there,

[01:40:08] we actually lived,

[01:40:09] like our apartment

[01:40:09] touched the Grand Canal

[01:40:10] and so they would have

[01:40:11] dragon boat races,

[01:40:13] these kind of races

[01:40:13] they would do

[01:40:14] with certain kind of boats

[01:40:15] and stuff.

[01:40:15] They would have barges

[01:40:16] travel up and down it.

[01:40:17] So this is a logistic river.

[01:40:22] They dug a river,

[01:40:23] right?

[01:40:23] For transportation.

[01:40:25] Exactly.

[01:40:26] And this river goes

[01:40:27] all the way up to Beijing

[01:40:28] and is one of their

[01:40:29] number one supply lines

[01:40:30] and it starts

[01:40:31] way over here

[01:40:32] in central China,

[01:40:34] really close

[01:40:35] to where,

[01:40:35] about 40 miles away

[01:40:36] from them

[01:40:37] where they are in Nanjing.

[01:40:38] Taiping realized,

[01:40:39] hey,

[01:40:39] there's a gigantic supply line

[01:40:41] right here

[01:40:41] and if we were just

[01:40:43] to cut it off,

[01:40:44] Beijing would suddenly

[01:40:45] not be able to get

[01:40:46] all the rice that it needs

[01:40:47] from the southern provinces

[01:40:48] to survive.

[01:40:49] And so they go over

[01:40:50] and they do just that.

[01:40:51] They capture the city

[01:40:51] that's closest to the canal.

[01:40:52] Now they,

[01:40:53] in the canals,

[01:40:54] travels.

[01:40:55] And so now,

[01:40:55] if you're Beijing,

[01:40:57] this is a massive disruption.

[01:40:58] I mean,

[01:40:59] imagine if somebody

[01:40:59] blocked the Mississippi River.

[01:41:01] What does that do

[01:41:01] to New Orleans,

[01:41:02] St. Louis,

[01:41:03] all the places

[01:41:03] that are on that?

[01:41:04] You know,

[01:41:05] in today's world,

[01:41:05] we had one ever,

[01:41:06] a couple years ago,

[01:41:07] one Evergrande

[01:41:08] shipping container

[01:41:09] blocked the Suez Canal

[01:41:10] and it caused

[01:41:11] worldwide shipping problems,

[01:41:12] right?

[01:41:12] Like,

[01:41:13] this can be a big deal.

[01:41:14] Now imagine if your city

[01:41:15] has been dependent

[01:41:16] on rice shipping

[01:41:17] for,

[01:41:17] you know,

[01:41:18] a thousand years

[01:41:18] on this canal

[01:41:19] and your enemies

[01:41:20] just blocked it

[01:41:21] and you live

[01:41:22] in a colder part of China.

[01:41:23] It's not as easy

[01:41:24] to grow stuff up there.

[01:41:25] This is a big deal.

[01:41:26] The Taiping people

[01:41:27] are not stupid.

[01:41:28] They came out

[01:41:29] of mountain bandit lifestyle,

[01:41:31] but they're,

[01:41:31] they're fighting

[01:41:32] and acting

[01:41:32] highly intelligent.

[01:41:35] As frustrating

[01:41:35] as they are to Beijing

[01:41:37] and as annoyed

[01:41:37] as you are at them,

[01:41:38] you can't get rid

[01:41:40] of them yet

[01:41:40] because you

[01:41:41] have a closer

[01:41:42] to home rebellion.

[01:41:44] Between you

[01:41:44] and the Taiping rebellion

[01:41:45] is another rebellion

[01:41:47] currently going on

[01:41:48] called the Neon Rebellion.

[01:41:50] These basically

[01:41:50] is a much smaller rebellion,

[01:41:52] but it's causing them

[01:41:53] a ton,

[01:41:54] a ton of trouble.

[01:41:54] This group is living

[01:41:55] north of Shanghai,

[01:41:57] kind of in the,

[01:41:57] again,

[01:41:58] using America

[01:41:58] as an example.

[01:41:59] This is over

[01:42:00] in West Virginia,

[01:42:01] Virginia,

[01:42:01] between you

[01:42:02] and this other group

[01:42:03] that you want to get to

[01:42:05] because they are,

[01:42:06] they are Mongolian

[01:42:08] horse riding people

[01:42:09] and they basically

[01:42:09] ride around

[01:42:10] archers on the backs

[01:42:11] of these horses

[01:42:12] attacking your men,

[01:42:13] stealing your supplies

[01:42:14] and causing you

[01:42:15] tons of trouble.

[01:42:16] Now this rebellion,

[01:42:17] the Neon Rebellion

[01:42:18] will actually last longer

[01:42:19] than the Taiping rebellion.

[01:42:21] It will lead to 200,000

[01:42:22] people dying.

[01:42:23] It will go on

[01:42:24] for almost 20 years

[01:42:25] and what makes it

[01:42:26] such a bad rebellion

[01:42:27] is that it's attacking

[01:42:29] all the richest places.

[01:42:31] Imagine you have

[01:42:31] a giant rebellion

[01:42:32] in the middle of America

[01:42:33] in Midwest America,

[01:42:34] Kansas City,

[01:42:35] St. Louis,

[01:42:36] the heartland

[01:42:37] and you go to get

[01:42:39] your forces to fight them

[01:42:40] but while you're

[01:42:41] trying to do that,

[01:42:41] your richest cities,

[01:42:42] you know,

[01:42:43] maybe Los Angeles,

[01:42:44] New York City

[01:42:44] are on fire

[01:42:45] by this other group.

[01:42:47] Which group

[01:42:47] do you go deal with first?

[01:42:48] Do you deal with the group

[01:42:49] that's in the middle

[01:42:50] that's really big

[01:42:51] or do you deal with the group

[01:42:52] that's hitting your bank account?

[01:42:53] And China is trying

[01:42:55] to deal with this group

[01:42:55] that's hitting their

[01:42:56] bank account first

[01:42:57] but this group is fast,

[01:42:59] they ride horses

[01:43:00] and they're very,

[01:43:01] very tough to deal with.

[01:43:02] And so this group

[01:43:03] will cause China

[01:43:04] just a ton of trouble

[01:43:05] as they're trying

[01:43:06] to get their handle

[01:43:06] on the Taiping army.

[01:43:08] They keep getting distracted

[01:43:09] by this other group.

[01:43:10] Now that this other group,

[01:43:12] the Neon Rebellion,

[01:43:13] the Taiping tried

[01:43:14] to reach out to them

[01:43:15] multiple times.

[01:43:15] They're like,

[01:43:15] hey, join us.

[01:43:16] Like we're on the same page.

[01:43:18] We're both trying

[01:43:18] to overthrow the Qing empire.

[01:43:20] We're both just

[01:43:20] doing the same thing.

[01:43:22] The Neon people

[01:43:23] are not interested

[01:43:23] in a religious system.

[01:43:25] They're really just interested

[01:43:26] in sharing money

[01:43:28] and spreading the wealth around

[01:43:29] and just taking money

[01:43:30] from the Qing

[01:43:30] and just kind of giving it out

[01:43:31] and having fun with it.

[01:43:33] They also,

[01:43:33] some people's scholars

[01:43:34] have pointed out

[01:43:35] that during this time,

[01:43:36] about 25% more males

[01:43:38] were born in China

[01:43:39] than females.

[01:43:40] And so some of scholars

[01:43:41] have wondered like,

[01:43:42] are these rebellions happening

[01:43:43] because there are just

[01:43:44] too many men

[01:43:45] and not enough women?

[01:43:46] But regardless,

[01:43:47] this group is roaming around

[01:43:48] causing problems.

[01:43:49] Sometimes they'll join

[01:43:50] the Taiping rebellion

[01:43:51] and they'll be the cavalry

[01:43:52] charge in their battles

[01:43:54] and they'll be really effective

[01:43:55] when the Taiping

[01:43:56] and the cavalry

[01:43:56] of this group come together.

[01:43:58] There's almost nobody

[01:43:59] that can stop them.

[01:44:00] But sometimes the Neon rebellion

[01:44:01] will get hungry

[01:44:02] and they'll go attack

[01:44:02] the Taiping towns

[01:44:03] and steal food from them.

[01:44:05] And sometimes the Taiping

[01:44:05] will have to kill them.

[01:44:06] It just,

[01:44:07] they're very much

[01:44:08] just a rebel random force

[01:44:09] just kind of moving through.

[01:44:11] And I read several different scholars

[01:44:13] that were under the impression

[01:44:14] that if the Neon rebellion

[01:44:15] had just tag teamed

[01:44:17] with the Taiping rebellion,

[01:44:18] they would have probably

[01:44:19] defeated the Qing empire.

[01:44:20] Those two forces together

[01:44:22] were that unstoppable

[01:44:23] that they probably

[01:44:24] would have won.

[01:44:25] The cavalry that they had

[01:44:26] were so good.

[01:44:27] The horse riders they had

[01:44:28] were so effective

[01:44:29] that combined

[01:44:30] with the Taiping military

[01:44:31] and strategy

[01:44:32] and administration,

[01:44:33] they would have been

[01:44:34] an unstoppable force.

[01:44:35] Again, the Taiping

[01:44:36] really tried to get

[01:44:37] the Neon rebellion

[01:44:38] to come on their side

[01:44:39] and they would say,

[01:44:40] hey, we're going to attack

[01:44:41] the city.

[01:44:41] If you come in this direction,

[01:44:42] we come in this direction,

[01:44:43] it's all ours.

[01:44:44] And then the Taiping

[01:44:44] would attack the city

[01:44:45] and the Neon rebellion

[01:44:46] would just not show up

[01:44:47] over and over again.

[01:44:48] So they were just kind of

[01:44:49] a wild card

[01:44:50] that showed up

[01:44:51] when they showed up

[01:44:51] and didn't when they didn't.

[01:44:52] But if you're in Beijing,

[01:44:54] you've got your supply route,

[01:44:55] the Grand Canal cut off,

[01:44:57] you've got your rice fields

[01:44:58] that normally give you

[01:44:59] most of your food

[01:44:59] being burnt down

[01:45:00] by the Neon rebellion.

[01:45:01] You're having a terrible time

[01:45:04] and so you just can't deal

[01:45:05] with the Taiping rebellion

[01:45:07] the way you would like to.

[01:45:08] And so the Taiping rebellion

[01:45:09] is getting to flourish

[01:45:10] and truly build a kingdom

[01:45:13] over in Nanjing

[01:45:14] and over in this area.

[01:45:15] And as they did,

[01:45:16] they start to set new rules

[01:45:17] for the people.

[01:45:18] First thing they do

[01:45:19] is they take the entire city.

[01:45:21] At this point,

[01:45:22] it's only about a quarter

[01:45:22] of a million people left

[01:45:23] and they cut it in half

[01:45:25] and they say,

[01:45:25] this side is where men live

[01:45:26] and over here

[01:45:27] is where the women live.

[01:45:28] This is not just

[01:45:29] some arbitrary thing.

[01:45:31] You could be executed

[01:45:32] if you went to the women's side

[01:45:33] or the men's side

[01:45:34] outside the appropriate hours.

[01:45:36] Now, to me,

[01:45:37] I think this is one

[01:45:37] of the craziest aspects

[01:45:39] of this entire thing

[01:45:39] that they took an entire city

[01:45:41] and cut it down the middle

[01:45:42] and basically said,

[01:45:43] men on this side,

[01:45:44] women on this side.

[01:45:44] Now, Chinese history

[01:45:46] has a cultural tradition

[01:45:47] of keeping men and women

[01:45:48] separate as a social harmony thing.

[01:45:50] They saw it as a sign of virtue

[01:45:52] when men and women

[01:45:53] didn't interact too much.

[01:45:54] In fact, apparently,

[01:45:55] they used to mock

[01:45:55] the Vietnamese

[01:45:56] because the girls

[01:45:57] and boys would play together

[01:45:58] and the Chinese saw it

[01:45:59] as like a sign

[01:46:00] of lower humanity

[01:46:01] as something that

[01:46:02] one of the differences

[01:46:02] between us and the animals

[01:46:03] is that we don't let

[01:46:04] our genders mix.

[01:46:05] So this is like a cultural thing,

[01:46:08] but still,

[01:46:09] a giant city

[01:46:10] of a quarter

[01:46:11] to half a million people

[01:46:12] get literally put

[01:46:13] onto the boys' dorm

[01:46:14] and the girls' dorm side of things.

[01:46:16] They get split in half here

[01:46:17] and I almost could find

[01:46:19] no research

[01:46:19] actually talking

[01:46:20] about what that was like.

[01:46:23] Not only that,

[01:46:23] but if you were married,

[01:46:24] you still had to live

[01:46:25] on the boys' side.

[01:46:26] If you were married

[01:46:27] or you're a girl,

[01:46:27] you still had to live

[01:46:28] on the girls' side.

[01:46:29] And they made a rule.

[01:46:30] This is around the year 1853

[01:46:31] that they do this.

[01:46:32] And they made a rule

[01:46:33] and they said,

[01:46:34] nobody can come together,

[01:46:36] no married couples

[01:46:37] can be married,

[01:46:38] can have sex

[01:46:39] until we capture Beijing

[01:46:41] and end this war.

[01:46:43] You would think

[01:46:44] there would be

[01:46:44] like more research

[01:46:45] on what life was like

[01:46:47] for the people

[01:46:47] as they weren't

[01:46:48] allowed to meet.

[01:46:49] Like, did they break

[01:46:50] those rules a lot?

[01:46:51] Were a lot of people

[01:46:52] executed for this?

[01:46:52] Like, what happened?

[01:46:53] But I couldn't find

[01:46:54] anybody talking about it.

[01:46:55] I don't know

[01:46:55] if it just got buried

[01:46:56] or what,

[01:46:57] but I thought

[01:46:57] that was one of the most

[01:46:59] interesting and bizarre

[01:47:00] aspects of this.

[01:47:01] The only thing

[01:47:02] I could really find

[01:47:03] was in the year 1855

[01:47:04] after two years of this,

[01:47:05] they finally said

[01:47:06] married men and women

[01:47:07] could meet to have sex

[01:47:09] if they were married,

[01:47:10] but they could still

[01:47:11] not live together,

[01:47:12] but they could meet up

[01:47:12] together now and then

[01:47:14] because they realized

[01:47:15] taking Beijing

[01:47:16] was taking too long.

[01:47:18] But I mean,

[01:47:18] imagine you're a family.

[01:47:19] This army rolls into town.

[01:47:21] Your wife,

[01:47:22] your daughters

[01:47:22] are now living

[01:47:23] on one side of the city.

[01:47:24] You and your sons

[01:47:25] are now living

[01:47:25] on the other side

[01:47:26] of the city

[01:47:26] and you cannot meet

[01:47:28] with them except

[01:47:29] for these appropriate

[01:47:30] times of worship time.

[01:47:31] It's hard to imagine

[01:47:33] that an entire city

[01:47:33] went through that

[01:47:34] and it's hard to me

[01:47:35] that a quote unquote

[01:47:37] Christian cult did that

[01:47:38] and more people

[01:47:39] don't talk about it

[01:47:40] because it's really,

[01:47:40] really weird.

[01:47:41] But it doesn't,

[01:47:42] you know,

[01:47:43] the people didn't turn

[01:47:44] on them.

[01:47:45] No,

[01:47:45] they didn't.

[01:47:46] It wasn't,

[01:47:46] there was,

[01:47:47] there was,

[01:47:48] it didn't annoy them

[01:47:50] enough to the point

[01:47:50] of rebelling against them.

[01:47:53] Not as far as we can tell.

[01:47:55] I mean,

[01:47:55] there's no evidence here

[01:47:56] that they ever turned

[01:47:57] on them,

[01:47:57] they ever tried

[01:47:58] to fight them.

[01:47:59] But you know who could

[01:48:00] meet with the women,

[01:48:00] Joel?

[01:48:01] You know who was able

[01:48:02] to have women

[01:48:02] and you were already

[01:48:03] probably guessing,

[01:48:04] the leaders.

[01:48:05] Hong himself began to,

[01:48:07] as he became

[01:48:08] the palace king,

[01:48:09] he got comfortable

[01:48:10] in his throne,

[01:48:11] you know,

[01:48:11] what's a king

[01:48:11] without some women,

[01:48:13] some concubines,

[01:48:14] some harems.

[01:48:15] You know,

[01:48:15] he looked at his Old Testament,

[01:48:16] he saw that King David

[01:48:17] and Solomon have lots of women.

[01:48:18] He goes,

[01:48:18] I guess I should too.

[01:48:20] And so he begins

[01:48:21] to get lots and lots

[01:48:22] of ladies around them.

[01:48:23] We don't have the numbers,

[01:48:24] but we know it was

[01:48:25] so much that it basically

[01:48:26] completely distracted him

[01:48:28] from his work.

[01:48:29] And so again,

[01:48:30] kind of tying back

[01:48:31] to that Anabaptist and Munster,

[01:48:32] if you know that story,

[01:48:33] one of the things

[01:48:34] about that story

[01:48:35] that's crazy

[01:48:35] is in the middle

[01:48:36] of that story

[01:48:36] as they become

[01:48:37] this very strict cult,

[01:48:38] they out of nowhere

[01:48:39] just start having

[01:48:40] multiple wives

[01:48:41] and that's pretty much

[01:48:42] what this guy does.

[01:48:43] Up until now,

[01:48:44] for 15 years,

[01:48:44] he's been this,

[01:48:45] maybe not 15,

[01:48:46] but for 10 years,

[01:48:47] he's been this very

[01:48:47] religiously strict guy

[01:48:48] and then out of nowhere,

[01:48:50] he's like,

[01:48:50] I'm going to have

[01:48:51] several concubines

[01:48:51] and everyone's just like,

[01:48:53] that's fine,

[01:48:53] that's totally cool,

[01:48:54] no problem.

[01:48:55] No,

[01:48:55] I mean,

[01:48:56] it makes sense.

[01:48:57] Cult's always manned.

[01:48:58] It always comes back

[01:48:59] to the weird sex stuff

[01:49:01] all the time.

[01:49:02] It really does.

[01:49:03] That is classic cultiness,

[01:49:06] isn't it?

[01:49:06] Now,

[01:49:07] as they're taking over

[01:49:08] this city,

[01:49:09] they'd redistribute

[01:49:10] the property

[01:49:10] as they've kind of

[01:49:11] been promising to do

[01:49:12] and everyone loves that.

[01:49:13] If you were considered

[01:49:14] to be hoarding

[01:49:15] private property,

[01:49:16] if you had too many

[01:49:16] things in your house

[01:49:17] and you didn't show

[01:49:18] that you gave it all up,

[01:49:19] they would behead you.

[01:49:20] They would also,

[01:49:21] if you had slaves,

[01:49:22] you were beheaded.

[01:49:23] If you tried to do

[01:49:24] prostitution,

[01:49:25] you were beheaded.

[01:49:26] If you tried to do

[01:49:27] foot binding,

[01:49:28] you were beheaded.

[01:49:29] If,

[01:49:30] you know,

[01:49:30] if you did it

[01:49:31] and they would stack

[01:49:31] the heads around,

[01:49:32] I mean,

[01:49:32] one account said

[01:49:33] they stacked the heads

[01:49:34] around the neighborhood

[01:49:34] so that you could see,

[01:49:35] here's the people

[01:49:36] who didn't listen to the rules

[01:49:37] and got beheaded.

[01:49:38] Here's a warning to you

[01:49:39] of what happens

[01:49:40] if you cross the Taiping kingdom.

[01:49:42] The great peace kingdom

[01:49:43] has stacks of heads everywhere.

[01:49:45] Now,

[01:49:45] women were actually considered

[01:49:46] to have more rights

[01:49:47] under the Taiping kingdom.

[01:49:49] In fact,

[01:49:49] for the first time,

[01:49:50] if you were a woman,

[01:49:51] you could take

[01:49:51] the civil service exams

[01:49:52] under the Taiping kingdom.

[01:49:54] So on the one hand,

[01:49:55] you can't see your husband

[01:49:55] and you can't see your sons

[01:49:57] on the one hand,

[01:49:58] but on the other hand,

[01:49:59] your feet are getting unbound

[01:50:00] and if you want to take

[01:50:01] the civil service exams,

[01:50:02] you're allowed to do that.

[01:50:03] What a confusing place to be.

[01:50:05] Now,

[01:50:06] all the families

[01:50:06] were assigned

[01:50:07] under a military brigadier commander

[01:50:09] and these guys

[01:50:10] would rule their lives.

[01:50:11] So you were run

[01:50:11] by a military commander

[01:50:13] who checked in on you

[01:50:13] and made sure everything

[01:50:14] was going the way

[01:50:15] it was supposed to.

[01:50:16] Families were supposed

[01:50:17] to serve together.

[01:50:18] They would fight together

[01:50:19] for the wars.

[01:50:20] Children went to school

[01:50:21] every single day

[01:50:22] to study your Old

[01:50:22] and New Testament

[01:50:23] every single day.

[01:50:24] The schools were organized

[01:50:26] by groups of 500

[01:50:27] underneath these

[01:50:27] brigadier commanders

[01:50:28] to make sure everything

[01:50:29] was going the way

[01:50:30] the Taiping kingdom wanted.

[01:50:31] And then on Sunday,

[01:50:32] your entire family

[01:50:33] would go to church

[01:50:34] and spend pretty much

[01:50:34] the entire day there,

[01:50:35] but you would be separated

[01:50:36] by genders

[01:50:37] where you would sit.

[01:50:38] You'd sing songs,

[01:50:39] singing about the heavenly father.

[01:50:41] And then if you had

[01:50:42] any extra food,

[01:50:43] you were supposed

[01:50:43] to give it up

[01:50:44] for a big sharing

[01:50:45] kind of potluck.

[01:50:45] All Taoists,

[01:50:47] Confucian,

[01:50:48] Buddhist temples,

[01:50:49] anything of that sort

[01:50:50] were destroyed.

[01:50:51] All the priests

[01:50:52] who didn't become

[01:50:52] a part of the Taiping kingdom

[01:50:53] were killed.

[01:50:54] But Muslim mosques

[01:50:55] once again are left alone.

[01:50:57] They're really hoping

[01:50:58] the Muslims' rebellion

[01:50:59] will go really well for them.

[01:51:00] So they're just kind of like,

[01:51:01] hey Muslims,

[01:51:02] we like you guys.

[01:51:02] Don't just rebel

[01:51:04] and attack the Qing empire

[01:51:05] for us, please.

[01:51:06] So as you can see here,

[01:51:07] they now have an empire.

[01:51:09] They now have a country.

[01:51:10] They are now affecting

[01:51:11] the world that they are in.

[01:51:13] And they are now beginning

[01:51:14] to take over the country.

[01:51:16] They have,

[01:51:16] or they really beginning

[01:51:17] to run their own country.

[01:51:18] They establish a currency.

[01:51:20] They start setting up

[01:51:21] diplomatic routes

[01:51:22] to other countries

[01:51:23] saying, hey European countries

[01:51:24] come join us.

[01:51:25] The European countries

[01:51:26] are interested

[01:51:27] but they're staying

[01:51:28] mostly neutral.

[01:51:29] They're kind of going,

[01:51:29] hey I don't know

[01:51:31] what's going on here.

[01:51:32] We're just going to

[01:51:32] kind of stick out of it.

[01:51:33] As Hong is kind of

[01:51:34] really setting himself up here,

[01:51:36] he no longer really

[01:51:36] has any plans to move

[01:51:37] and he begins to start

[01:51:39] gathering more and more women

[01:51:41] into his harem

[01:51:42] and starts to spend

[01:51:42] more and more time.

[01:51:43] He used to go out

[01:51:44] and lead services.

[01:51:46] Now he's just sending

[01:51:47] written proclamations out

[01:51:48] with religious sounding languages.

[01:51:50] He would love to spend time

[01:51:51] quote unquote

[01:51:52] meditating with his harem.

[01:51:53] He felt that

[01:51:54] that was one of the best ways

[01:51:55] to get close to

[01:51:56] quote unquote God

[01:51:57] was to sit among

[01:51:58] all these women

[01:51:59] while they massage him

[01:52:00] and meditate.

[01:52:03] One argument was

[01:52:04] that he was much less hands on

[01:52:05] but you could

[01:52:06] in a very

[01:52:07] very inappropriate pun

[01:52:09] say he was more

[01:52:10] hands on in some ways.

[01:52:11] Now I don't know

[01:52:13] what to say

[01:52:13] about this chapter

[01:52:14] of his life.

[01:52:15] I mean you could argue

[01:52:16] that women undid

[01:52:18] the wisest men

[01:52:19] that ever lived,

[01:52:19] Solomon.

[01:52:20] So it could just be

[01:52:21] he was very sincere

[01:52:22] but he was distracted.

[01:52:24] It could also be

[01:52:25] that he had never really

[01:52:26] been all that sincere

[01:52:27] and this was just

[01:52:28] his chance to live

[01:52:28] high on life.

[01:52:30] I mean not bad

[01:52:31] for a guy who failed

[01:52:31] a service exam three times.

[01:52:33] He's now the king

[01:52:33] over a city.

[01:52:34] He now has a harem.

[01:52:36] He now has all these people

[01:52:37] doing whatever he says.

[01:52:38] I mean he's done

[01:52:39] very well for himself

[01:52:40] in a personal property

[01:52:42] kind of sense.

[01:52:43] Regardless,

[01:52:44] here he is

[01:52:45] now running this country

[01:52:46] and in just this one city alone

[01:52:48] and the small region

[01:52:50] around it

[01:52:50] they control the lives

[01:52:51] of well over

[01:52:52] two million people.

[01:52:53] If you combine

[01:52:54] all their cities

[01:52:54] it's a much

[01:52:55] much larger group.

[01:52:57] Now around this time

[01:52:57] we see armies

[01:52:59] starting to move in

[01:52:59] from Beijing.

[01:53:00] They're getting ready

[01:53:01] to capture Nanjing.

[01:53:03] They want to destroy

[01:53:04] this movement

[01:53:05] that Hong set up

[01:53:07] and they will actually

[01:53:08] come very very close

[01:53:10] to destroying it.

[01:53:11] In fact,

[01:53:11] in the next section

[01:53:12] we will start to talk

[01:53:13] about a man

[01:53:14] who in almost every way

[01:53:16] is Hong's opposite.

[01:53:17] It's like if you were

[01:53:18] if this were a movie

[01:53:19] and you were describing

[01:53:20] the script of a guy

[01:53:22] who would go to war

[01:53:23] with Hong

[01:53:23] who has almost

[01:53:24] the exact inverted

[01:53:26] background of Hong

[01:53:27] this guy that

[01:53:28] that the Beijing

[01:53:29] are going to rise up

[01:53:30] to fight him

[01:53:31] is going to be

[01:53:31] in every way

[01:53:32] this guy's

[01:53:33] complete polar opposite

[01:53:34] and he will be

[01:53:36] the guy that they send

[01:53:37] in to take him on

[01:53:38] this rebellion

[01:53:39] if you're listening

[01:53:40] and going

[01:53:40] we got to be getting

[01:53:40] close to the end

[01:53:41] oh no no

[01:53:42] we have 10 more years

[01:53:43] and the weird stuff

[01:53:44] is only just

[01:53:45] starting to begin

[01:53:46] we're only just

[01:53:48] starting to see

[01:53:48] the weird stuff

[01:53:49] begin to take place

[01:53:50] there is so much more

[01:53:51] that these guys

[01:53:52] are going to do

[01:53:53] that is going to

[01:53:54] continue to

[01:53:54] by the very end of it

[01:53:56] you're gonna

[01:53:56] one of the things

[01:53:57] that just fascinates me

[01:53:57] the most is how can

[01:53:58] you read the Bible

[01:53:59] every day

[01:53:59] force everyone

[01:54:00] to read the Bible

[01:54:01] every day