Joel and Troy have a Revived Convo about things that are different today. What benefits and drawbacks do Christians have today that Christians throughout history wouldn't have had to deal with?
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Revived thoughts is a production of Revived Studios.
00:17 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Troy and Joel, and you are listening to Revive Thoughts Conversation, Revive Thoughts Conversation, normally every episode we would bring you a different voice from history and a sermon that they delivered, but on these conversational episodes, we actually try to do the opposite way, and we're
00:33 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_00]: With the normal episode, we really dig in to a certain person's story and a certain sermon, and just as a certain moment in the story of church history, with the conversations, we're kind of taking a much more broad, big picture outlook, taking the things that we've learned throughout doing these episodes and telling all these stories and trying to kind of apply them to a topic or an idea today.
00:55 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a conversation.
00:56 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the conversation based on stuff we've learned from revive thoughts.
00:59 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:00 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's delightful.
01:00 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They're always fun.
01:01 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some of my favorite episodes to do.
01:02 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:04 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just kind of, and usually every year, we have somebody say, like, oh, man, that conversation was on my favorite episode.
01:10 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You did this year, too.
01:11 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's kind of hard not to.
01:13 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, we didn't have this as part of the original format of how we got about doing the show, but you just think about so much stuff while recording these episodes and while doing research that you can't help but like want to talk about it.
01:24 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And then one day, Troy and I were just like, what if we just record us talking about this type of stuff?
01:28 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And then bam, the Revive Conversation episode versions version edition variation was born Yeah, it sounds like we were like one day like we should have a podcast while making our podcast It's kind of the almost the vibe that happened there.
01:42 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
01:43 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I'm really excited about today's topic.
01:46 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually have notes, uh, I thought about this and I want to run them by you as actually thinking I could present my ideas and then get your thoughts on them.
01:56 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_00]: A huge fan.
01:56 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll take, take the reins.
01:57 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I had, honestly, the only reason this one came to me, I think I was, I think I was the one that pitched this one.
02:02 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:02 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And the main reason was over the summer when I was traveling, uh,
02:06 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: There was just like a lot of moments where I was like, you know, this is something that we do today that you just they're just so many things that wouldn't it would never work this way like a 200 years ago, this is so specific To the way we do things now that it so that maybe just kind of that's kind of where the idea was like what are okay.
02:23 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We always talking about how how different it was back then But how much you know if we time traveled some of these pastors to today what would be the things they would go.
02:30 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
02:31 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys do a different now.
02:32 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I know when we would never have done it that way before so that was kind of where my mind
02:36 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: went to.
02:37 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and kind of vice versa.
02:39 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you got to have the same application of like we have those realizations of wow, they did this very different back than then we do this today.
02:48 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that good?
02:49 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that bad?
02:50 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's for us to talk about it.
02:51 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's gonna be fine.
02:52 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, Jill, I'm also one last thing we had to say about the conversation, too.
02:56 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes sometimes we debate, sometimes the topic skis.
02:59 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: argument of Joel and I do not free script anything that's happening.
03:02 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember a guy told me like how much of the conversation part?
03:05 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know like the episode on like well this we we have like like we write down What we're gonna say about these guys because there are names and dates and stuff are not always easy to remember And he was like yeah, but the conversation I was like, oh, no, that's that's completely unscripted So if we end up arguing we're actually arguing
03:19 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, although I don't think we'll argue much in this episode.
03:21 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're pretty similarly minded.
03:23 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I came in the fight.
03:24 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, we probably.
03:26 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't about any church conferences or anything like that, so I should really know.
03:32 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we're juxtaposing.
03:34 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We're comparing.
03:36 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_01]: How pastures operate in the 21st century compared to how they operated in years of old.
03:44 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of broke this into categories in my head.
03:47 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's categories in the pro column as in like, these are things we do different.
03:53 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: But.
03:54 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there kind of nice yeah, yeah, and then there's the obviously the the other end of that here's things that they did back then that are kind of nice and I feel like we're missing out on So feel I need point troll it feel free to jump in add your own You admit or Or to push back a clarifier, but the first one that I have written down the spirit
04:17 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Access to resources.
04:19 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is again in favor of our current era that we live in man talk about the internet talk about unlimited libraries You go back to 300 years books are super expensive.
04:31 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_01]: They're hard to get your hands on
04:36 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And now we have all the commentaries, we have all the different resources Even think about just like online seminary training, you know, like you can get very thorough Biblical sound training
04:51 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_00]: At the tip of your mind, you're mostly at the truth of your opinion.
04:54 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I am.
04:54 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I add on to what you're saying.
04:55 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_00]: There are several seminaries that have just put their entire class online.
04:59 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So even if you don't go the online for your degree, what you can do from anywhere in the world pretty much at any seminary now, you could theoretically learn all the information these guys are learning even if you didn't take the class.
05:11 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's wild to me.
05:13 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That information is able to be accessed like never truly never for.
05:20 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
05:21 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's incredible.
05:22 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's wonderful.
05:24 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Along those same lines is just technology and how it makes things available.
05:31 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I think of like Bible software, you know, like your logo.
05:34 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're a coordinates.
05:35 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
05:35 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Logos.
05:36 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
05:36 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
05:37 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Logos.
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: You're listening.
05:41 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like if you, I'm going to, I, I, I, somebody, it's a log, a lot, it's actually is not a logo, so I'm pretty sure it's a log as, but they have a bunch of sermons that are like old sermons that I've tried to find and get through because it's surprising, I haven't, I don't want to put that money in and, and I'm not sure if they'd given them anyway, I don't know if there's a copyright on them, so I, you know, there's a little, there's a little beef there with me, I'm like, okay, if we have, if we have somebody listening who works for them, okay, give me a free key, let me in there and let me play around.
06:08 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me some of those servants and then this will become much more of an endorseable thing But just in my experience, I saw that it was okay.
06:14 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of pricey that one is Because so many other accessible resources are free.
06:19 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes it makes some stand out I'm sure it's amazing.
06:21 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure if I was a pastor I probably would want to have but yeah
06:26 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha.
06:29 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But even just like word process, you know, like back back then these people let listeners or listening to us that preach sermons or, you know, lead devotions or something that imagine literally handwriting, I guess there are probably maybe arson people that actually do handwrite their outlines out and things like that.
06:49 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_01]: But they would write their sermons out in their entirety, like these were transcripts.
06:53 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how we happened today.
06:54 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how we can reach them on revive thoughts Because that was like how people did it back then my handwriting man Imagine the hand cramps you had to get you'd have to get some some pretty strong
07:05 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_00]: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
07:23 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Not an easy task at all.
07:24 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them of course would manuscript it out, but then it means you have 120 pages in front of you.
07:28 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, what the average person has maybe a tablet or something is swinging through it, it's easy, it can be recorded, it's definitely just so much simpler than it was then.
07:36 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I am very thankful for my computer, for whipping up outlines with, and then my iPad for...
07:45 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_01]: taken with me up to the ball pit to reference everything.
07:48 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Even this show right here that we have right now.
07:50 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it revives thoughts would not exist, except for in this technological moment, I can find sermons that have never been recorded for.
07:57 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: All around the world from libraries and Australia to the number of places we've gotten just access to, for free, easy, we rarely pay for one.
08:06 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we've gotten people from all over the world, from New Zealand, Australia, Europe, just all over their reading these sermons for us.
08:13 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And you and I are right now a little bit of do this.
08:15 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, you're in one continent.
08:16 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm in another continent talking to each other.
08:18 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's just, it's absolutely mind-boggling.
08:22 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Like try to explain that to somebody a hundred years ago.
08:24 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And they would think this is witchcraft.
08:27 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they would be like that is magic for sure.
08:28 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
08:30 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, all right.
08:31 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So the next one I got for you, listen to this one here.
08:33 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, wait, can I feel a counter that one if I'm a negative on that last one?
08:36 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_00]: OK.
08:37 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Because yes, so the positive, access to information, you have the ability to reach out and get resources like never before.
08:45 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But the counter-negative is the false teaching in bad ideas, have the ability to get out there like never before as well.
08:54 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I have students who have come to me.
08:57 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And basically, they're showing me TikToks and Instagram reels and things like that.
09:01 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_00]: just absolutely there's so non-sensical a hundred years ago that would have never made print like nobody would have ever been like oh they're the bible's not true because of x y and z but not only do they have these you know showing up in their feet and now we have to work to correct these silly ideas because someone anybody can turn a tiktok on uh... but they're actually targeting them like with their they've been found that there are you know atheists and um...
09:21 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Muslims are intentionally targeting, you know, young people, for example, with these kind of apologetic style videos to hammer against the faith I've had students who kind of been, and you can tell like their feet is in one of those campaigns.
09:34 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the other side of it is like, yeah, we have more access to information than ever before, but also false information, I feel like has more access to us than never before.
09:45 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
09:45 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good point.
09:46 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
09:48 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_01]: pros and cons, pros and cons.
09:50 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's an interesting one that we don't think about.
09:52 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how many each, again, go back to 100 years ago, try to explain to somebody like, yeah, you're going to have a device and there will be people who are against your faith that are just going to be sending you messages and videos into that device, like question your faith 24-7.
10:05 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to have, like, it's going to be streamed into your algorithm because of the money they paid or whatever it is to make sure that you're getting hit with that.
10:14 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, that's a crazy thing that we're dealing with that people 100 years ago
10:18 --> 10:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even people 10 years ago would have looked at that and been like, what's happening?
10:23 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's why I'm there's next one.
10:25 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I think is not so controversial and this is kind of a boring one.
10:28 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's more logistical in my mind.
10:29 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But amplification and broadcast, right?
10:35 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We have microphones.
10:37 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We have
10:40 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It set up in such a way where everyone can hear, you know, you think about your whipfields and your westlies that had a project to thousands of people without amplification.
10:50 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just up there shouting their sermons or something.
10:54 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, that's a weird part.
10:56 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's spurred you and was said that he was like famous for his ability to whisper and somehow everyone can hear him.
11:01 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess people just got out of quiet.
11:05 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: did he have a way of whispering that like could echo I don't know like it's I want to know what the whisper sounded like yeah yeah that'd be incredible so and then again I mean after with the microphone comes the ability to record that microphone so you can we have live streaming we have podcasts if you're subscribed to revive that's
11:24 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_01]: you're almost certainly subscribed to some sermon, you know, church's feed that that, you know, whether it's your church or some church that you like, you're probably listening to other sermons.
11:36 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_01]: All made possible due to technology in the 21st century and some microphones that change change how we consume sermons and the accessibility of them.
11:48 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:49 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But, and also, it's crazy, it's weird thing, too, where it is not uncommon, especially for the maybe more popular pastors that their sounds weird.
11:58 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like I have listened to the pastors who aren't even speaking to the people in front of them.
12:01 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're almost preaching for the soundbites, for the people that are gonna be listening to that on the commute ride home.
12:08 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm there.
12:09 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's such a weird thing but you can tell like they're not the people in front of them are not who this this just a platform to reach the people out there And that's certainly something that is I'm sure that probably is on some level been around since maybe the radio even days But like that's definitely not something that would have been around 200 years ago definitely definitely yeah, it's interest just just just the notion the idea that What I'm saying is going to be heard
12:36 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: by more people and more clearly the changes how people approach and think about how they're going to say what they're going to say.
12:45 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I mean, it's not necessarily that it should.
12:49 --> 12:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like that's kind of the byproduct that we see over time.
12:52 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that just just the existence of
12:56 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_01]: that the idea that someone could take a sound bite from that is going to change out people present things.
13:03 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me take a small example.
13:05 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: When we first started to revive thoughts, you and I, you know, we were dealing with past some of these pastors, either own slaves or we're like a part of the south or these pastors, you know, wouldn't have the best reputations on whatever, that's just a big dramatic issue, but these are all these big issues and we're taking people who, you know, they may have done some, they did some great things for the kingdom, but they had, you
13:27 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember you and I were very nervous in those early days of, like, how will people hear these things?
13:32 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And will they try to come after us and cancel us?
13:35 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you listen to some early episodes, I've heard people say, like, we sound much more nervous and much more.
13:39 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And we were, we were as nervous with the whole idea, would anybody even buy in to revive thoughts?
13:44 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was also just this idea, like, oh, people are waiting to cancel you.
13:47 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then as we've gone on, I realize most people aren't sitting around waiting to cancel people.
13:51 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And now when I talk to people and they're doing stuff like, oh, what if they get mad about that?
13:54 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, trust me, the offense people are not nearly as plentiful out here in the Christian world as we think they are.
14:00 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But even, I don't think you and I are the only ones.
14:03 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're the first people because I've heard lots of other podcasts or say that kind of thing.
14:06 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, oh, we're gonna get the angry emails or we're gonna get canceled or we're gonna, they're gonna come after us or saying that.
14:13 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: people are just wary of this online out there, you know, think that can cancel you.
14:20 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: If a soundbite goes wrong, how much does that affect pastors and sermons and online ministries and stuff?
14:26 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And how much is that just, how do you explain that to people 200 years ago?
14:30 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, yeah, the people in your congregation will be edified by what you're saying, but there might you might be afraid that people you'll never meet who aren't Christians might come after you for a statement email in this like, wait, that's something people are going to be
14:44 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have more I have more thoughts about that in our comms column.
14:48 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sorry.
14:49 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know you're good.
14:51 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You're good, but like that doesn't necessarily with one of the things I'd written down here.
14:55 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the last thing these are actually none I'm thinking about it pretty pretty lame prose.
15:00 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what I'm saying, but I do think this is.
15:05 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_01]: A pro, uh, comfort and logistics.
15:08 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
15:09 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We have air condition buildings.
15:11 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_01]: We have heated buildings.
15:12 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We got nice padding on our scenes.
15:15 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Speak for yourself.
15:16 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
15:17 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:17 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not all of us have all these things.
15:20 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And endo with your, your humid hot climate.
15:23 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, at least in America here.
15:25 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Got climate control buildings.
15:28 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, again, decent seating most the time.
15:31 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Good, nice.
15:33 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_01]: a clear sound, unless I'm running the soundboard, then there's probably feedback, but most of the time.
15:38 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Pastors have like their own office, which is that it sounds like a no-brainer, but that was not historically the case for a lot of history.
15:50 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Secretaries, you know, like that's a huge luxury.
15:54 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So all those things, in theory,
15:59 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_01]: make it a more enjoyable experience to to be fed from the past room.
16:07 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
16:07 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say some other you know comforts you have a card to get to get to get to the church and the morning probably or maybe another cycle to put on where you are but you have a most people have a transportation means to get to.
16:19 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's raining outside you don't have to stay home because the course is going to struggle in the mud.
16:25 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_00]: there you go or it's gonna be a you know kids get on your you know you're whatever yeah you don't have to worry about just so many little there's a little things like that you you have I mean probably have a powerpoint project or some kind for imagery I mean there's just so much things you can do
16:41 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_00]: that the people of the past would have absolutely envied those kinds of active in the course.
16:47 --> 16:48 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't know any better, right?
16:48 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm sure a hundred years from now for all still here, the floating cars will make it a lot easier to get the church and they'll be back in the day, you have to drive on the ground.
16:55 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sure.
16:56 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: point being though like there's just so many things like that.
16:58 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You can you can have access to resources access to ideas.
17:01 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You can have come convenience.
17:03 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to take a trip around the world and do some ministry somewhere else, that's a plane flight that takes, you know, tops 24 to 36 hours.
17:10 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Not
17:12 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: a four month boat journey like Hudson Taylor would have been going on and even that would have been considered fast compared to a hundred years before that you know what I mean like it you're not taking you're not worried that you're gonna catch you you know some kind of horrible mosquito-borne illness and probably die on the way as well like I mean you still can't get those mosquito-borne illnesses but you probably will get cured out of them as you go like that's a lot more convenient uh certainly than it used to be and so this just cool uh even just
17:39 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: getting in contact with people.
17:40 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You can send an email and you don't have to wait for the post-doc organization.
17:44 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Carry that letter and hope they don't lose it.
17:46 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, saying like that's really nice.
17:48 --> 18:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, over the summer when we're traveling, a lot of the churches that reach out to us talk to us and we engage with are coming in through emails and, you know, we have people who listen to our show, who reach, who we went to a church of someone who, listen to our show, we only knew them through the show and they were able to get to us.
18:02 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_00]: They listen to our online podcast,
18:04 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we received an email from them, and off we were, you know, to do a video call, and all that.
18:09 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's only made possible by this convenient world we live in, and it just wouldn't have been able to have.
18:14 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I could drive down to his church, preach there, and get back all in only a couple hours, things that to people a long time ago, that would have been days of travel.
18:24 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And they would have been like, that's a lot for one trip.
18:26 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
18:26 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it's amazing.
18:28 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to forget how convenient our life really is.
18:31 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:32 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely definitely okay.
18:33 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to shift gears unless we have more I have a few more pros we could put it Yeah, why is a 21st century the best century of all time so a big pro Man if you're if you're eschatologically right now if you're a post mill you're nodding your head like good This is a good episode guys
18:50 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, so, yeah, another one, pastors, I think, and I, there have been seasons of the cycles of this, where this is a thing.
18:58 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think right now, we are in a cycle where pastors understand very well, and anyone administering that they need to take care of their family, and they need to take care of their kids.
19:07 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And that has not always been a thing.
19:09 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It used to be not even all that long ago.
19:12 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: not all that long ago missionaries basically sacrifice their children out of the line say we put them in dorm in international schools and they still sometimes have to understand their reasons but it used to be kind of almost like a lot of even older people I I meet out here and there and a little say things like our organization would just kind of shove the kids off and that
19:30 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know any organizations that are thinking that way anymore.
19:33 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems like most of them have realized, like, whoa, we can't ask our guys to sacrifice their families and sacrifice their marriages.
19:40 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And the same thing with pastors, like, there's so many more books written on, you know, how can you balance being a good father and do you ministry?
19:47 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Compared to like 40 years ago, I think that has a much more understood subject.
19:52 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not to say that all pastors were the pastor of bad dad's Charles Spurgeon.
19:56 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We go to him a lot.
19:57 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_00]: He was famously a very good father.
20:00 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_00]: There have been seasons, but there have also been seasons where I can name some names where these guys were not good dad.
20:07 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_00]: They were traveling and doing stuff.
20:08 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And if their kids were saved, it seemed like it was saved in spite of them.
20:11 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily because of them.
20:14 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we live in an era where it is acknowledged and understood that the pastor needs to have
20:21 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Take care of his kids, take care of his wife, and not just be overwhelmed and completely burned out by the ministry that they're in.
20:29 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great point.
20:30 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great point.
20:31 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's actually probably the best one.
20:33 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The best pro we've made.
20:36 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, best pro we've had so far.
20:38 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're totally right.
20:39 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: There is, I do feel, unfortunately, probably the majority of these people that we talk about.
20:45 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_01]: don't have great family relationships because they are all in on ministry and they were very effective and did some great things because of that but their family suffered because of it and that is not really a mindset that
21:00 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_01]: is around these days and I think for the family ministry balance approach is something that we value and prioritize a lot more today than we did.
21:13 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like he said, even like 40 years ago, I mean, I listen to stories on my grandparents with hell and even back in the 50s or 60s, it's so stoned like,
21:22 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_01]: ministry came first, you know, and obviously God comes first and then family, but I think the listeners know what we're talking about.
21:30 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going to be seasons obviously, you know, you're head into something to a family dinner date with the family and then, you know, your prisoner calls and that there has been died.
21:40 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't be like, sorry, family dinner date family comes for, you know, there's going to be moments where the emergency may overrule the normal things, but there's still going to be
21:49 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the family is still prioritized, I think, in a way that it just, it just doesn't sound like it was, even I hear stories that are just not that old and you're like, I cannot believe that used to be a thing that everybody was experiencing and was supposed to be okay with.
22:02 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, it's wild how much we, we neglected.
22:07 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That aspect of pastoral.
22:08 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I hear all the time now from people.
22:10 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you probably heard it too You're if you fail your family if you weren't there not that you're you could still you know might walk away from God But if you failed to disciple them love them teach them the word you didn't you didn't you didn't you make time for them Then that was the minute then your other ministries in the sense almost don't even count like it You you failed overall what you were sent by God to do and that
22:32 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's something that we needed to hear.
22:34 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a big pro that I think is alive today that we don't see historically.
22:38 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And there are cycles, there are moments like I can point to good pastors who were good dad.
22:42 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not a Chinese slam and shade all of them, but there were definitely seasons where these evangelists are traveling 19 months out of the year.
22:50 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And you could just tell like, I win the day, I ever see their family.
22:52 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_00]: One of they ever see their kids, you know, that we love.
22:55 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_00]: our David Livingston's who cross-Africa and bring the gospel to Africa, but we also we feel bad for their children who never really saw that because he was always in the middle of Africa somewhere.
23:06 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: How would you have done that life?
23:10 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
23:10 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not here to judge them.
23:13 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate the moment we live in now where we're not doing that.
23:16 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the big one.
23:16 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a big pro I wanted to make sure we got out there.
23:19 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to think of some other pros, but maybe I'm blanking, maybe it will come to me with the cons.
23:22 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's start doing some of these negatives.
23:24 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And then just like I thought of negatives as we went with pros, maybe I'll start thinking of some pros as we poop through the negatives.
23:29 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of these do go hand in hand with what we have been talking about just on the other side.
23:34 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And we say cons, but really, they're not, they're pros for the old ways.
23:38 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they're both pro.
23:40 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So we got pros for current days and we got pros for the old ways.
23:42 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's Okay, the traditional approach pros.
23:45 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's a good way to look at it.
23:46 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We're just positive Yeah, okay, so the this one I have here suits in church.
23:52 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the first one you're gonna say we got to bring them back ties
23:56 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you go to a pretty old Baptist church, so you know, you actually guys are still dressed pretty nice over there.
24:03 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
24:04 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, we are dressed more nice than the average person, but I could probably count on one hand the amount of people that actually wear suits to church nowadays.
24:13 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm more of a polo and khaki type of church goer guy and I stressed up for a lot of folks That is stressed out.
24:20 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That was that was dressed up for for the churches I it's still dressed up actually for the church as I to I almost always Yeah, I hope we're not offended and so it's me like they don't wear suits no, but I mean like I almost always wear a polo But it it might be jeans or something else beyond that blasted me.
24:36 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay
24:45 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Scriptural saturation.
24:48 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you know, we talked about they're being in abundance of resources and tools and how that's wonderful today But, you know back then do to a lack of those abundance of resources Your Bible was your resource, right?
25:02 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's what hey that's what you had
25:04 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_01]: to study and to build sermons on.
25:07 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you are memorizing scripture.
25:09 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_01]: You are relying deeply on that familiarity with the Bible itself.
25:16 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And so sermons back then, and we see this in all the sermons that we put out here, heavily expositionally, heavily
25:29 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: How how sermons are usually structured in today's nage for better for worse.
25:33 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, again, you can never have too much Bible.
25:36 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think But that's definitely a difference and I think it's because there you that's that's the source material you had to work with You know it's interesting
25:47 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean interrupt you, so interesting the way you say that because it's so it is very true of this this time we're living in where we are both scripturally saturated and at the same time we're like be honest compared to the past we're kind of biblically illiterate like right like we like we don't expect a pastor to just like name drop a little line from second kings and he assumed that his audience totally understood where he was coming from anymore we expect the pastor
26:11 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_00]: to at least what I've seen.
26:12 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We usually expect the pastor to kind of keep a shallow and explain every single piece of everything so that nobody gets lost because we, you know, we need to be and we and we've had people and I want anyone to listen to revive thoughts and listen as much as they can but there are many people who listen to our show and I like, hey, I have a hard time with some of those old sermons because they do go so deep.
26:31 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_00]: at I find that I'm getting submerged underwater and I'm not used to, you know, your show, your sermons are the only thing like this in my life, but really this, what we pick out a history is not like we're not picking, you know, these, we are trying to pick the best, but we're not picking anything unusual, like we're not just like, oh, it'll only give me the deepest ones, like it's just well, is that I'll most of the sermons are out history, tend to be deeper and it's kind of a sad.
26:54 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_00]: sign that our attention spans and our ability to go deep into think these connections through has gone away from people who are in a lot of places preaching to almost peasants like, you know what I mean?
27:04 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not always preaching at an Oxford or at Cambridge, but at the same time there's a spiritual saturation where people have apps and stuff on their phone and everywhere they go, where there's little things that are shooting versus at them, but it's like they become numb to it.
27:18 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like,
27:20 --> 27:32 [SPEAKER_00]: If I can draw a parallel to food, it's almost like because they're fat on fast food, it has crushed their ability to eat good food and understand the difference in a well-nutritioned meal.
27:32 --> 27:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
27:33 --> 27:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like it.
27:33 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
27:34 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_01]: That is a weird and I'm not sure completely accurate of the street because I totally resonance.
27:40 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I totally click with it.
27:43 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, get me your next, we'll see that next time.
27:46 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_00]: If we nailed it, I don't feel like we can go any deeper than that.
27:48 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
28:10 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: you know how easy it is to commute and to get up in an air conditioned church to present and stuff.
28:19 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything was just a little harder back then, right?
28:21 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, especially again, we look at our people like like a Wesley or what field that are preaching multiple times a day traveling on horseback between cities.
28:31 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_01]: They're long, hard.
28:33 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Days, and you're enduring hardships along the way, you know, all different types of poverty or persecution for the gospels stake.
28:43 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do think there is something from a like
28:50 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_01]: communal approach, right, like the group of people when you have a pastor who is doing a hard things in order to do what he is called to do when him getting up there in the pulpit, like it is difficult for him to do that.
29:08 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's pushing through that difficultness that kind of gives some type of more legitimacy to his authority.
29:14 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_01]: That might be a little bit.
29:15 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as far as
29:19 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_01]: there's there's a I feel like a camaraderie there with a congregation where and again at I know it's a little bit of rage but something that I feel like is dulled a bit by the comforts that we have here where if everything's just comfortable then you're not really it's not really hard or you're not really giving up anything or sacrifice anything.
29:39 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a sacrifice.
29:40 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me kind of add to that.
29:41 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I do agree with you, and look, there have always been false teachers, there have always been what are the people who are just doing it because of their job.
29:49 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have plenty of stories of that.
29:50 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So we know that's always been a thing, even in the days when it was hard, the fake pastor who's not, who's a unitary and or whatever, is going to still get up in the snowstorm sometimes.
30:00 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_00]: With that said that I do agree with you, I think in my own personal life, when we were working in Cambodia, I had to preach a lot of the sermons there because I was one of the only people who could, who had any background on a Bible, who knew how to do any of it, and I didn't have a projector.
30:16 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I just was just me on stage speaking to people who English was definitely their second language, and a lot of them knew English very well, but a lot of them didn't.
30:25 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And
30:27 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Boy, preaching in that position was a very challenging for me because it was, you know, that's, you know, and I'll be on some of the, some of the crowd was a little hostile.
30:35 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd have a nice, um,
30:37 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I also think that that was one of the best training fields I could have possibly had for giving sermons and pastoring because like when you can kind of learn it's it's difficult and I'm the only reason if I don't speak well if I don't give the points directly if I'm not clear in my language they're not going to get it there's no side show there's nothing else it's just me and them they're on plastic chairs it's hot
30:59 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go and sometimes a monkey would show up and distract everybody but like you know what I'm saying there's something that I that I do agree with you.
31:06 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you learned stuff from those kinds of situations.
31:09 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think of like the modern day equivalent is so many so many pastors get their start somewhere like an youth ministry or something like that and I think it's not necessarily a bad thing like sometimes you might think well I went to Bible College in seminary hand me the pulpit of the great church and I know we know a lot of pastors who did that
31:28 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of times, no, a lot of times you're humbled and you get sent to take care of the retirement community or you get sent to take care of the youth ministry or you get sent to those kinds of places.
31:38 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's actually a good place for you to learn and grow in those harder ministries before you finally are given that pastoral role, the big pulpit, the big place because I think God grows you in those much more challenging environments,
31:52 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And today, a challenging environment is getting in a car, going to an air-condition spot, speaking with a microphone that everyone can hear you.
31:58 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
31:59 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, our challenging is just very different.
32:01 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Another example that kind of aligns with that a little bit is the whole community aspect of it, too.
32:06 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We have some friends from the Netherlands, and they kind of lived outside of Amsterdam, kind of like in the countryside where it was still very, um,
32:14 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_00]: very the old church way of doing things and they would say like they said it one of the things that was very strange for them to get used to was that their American friends after you know service was over they would want to go to lunch and stuff and they were like we didn't have a lunch after our service because nothing was open like the whole community closed down for services on Sunday and you went home and like did family devotions or something like that like that was just how it rolled
32:37 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know that I want chileased to close on Sundays, but it is kind of cool that this idea of you and the pastor, the whole community, like you said, of sacrificing and coming together to make church a priority.
32:50 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something we're all going to feel, even if the people who don't go to church, their day is going to be changed because of the people who are living for Christ.
32:57 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not the same, that impact in that communal kind of response is not happening in that way at all and most of the West today.
33:08 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, this one is is kind of a no-brainer pretty obvious, but uh, people back then just had longer attention spans, you know.
33:15 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And we kind of talked to that.
33:16 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
33:16 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:17 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_01]: What?
33:18 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Here in Revive Thoughts, we try to put an effort into making sure sermons are probably like an hour max, kind of for that reason, it's really, but yeah, and sometimes we just have like a fragment or sometimes it was legitimately like a ten minute sermon delivery.
33:40 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is very common for sermons to be two hours of delivery and it's just very foreign for our brains to wrap our heads around.
33:52 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Would we be better off if we could listen to a two hour sermon?
33:56 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
33:58 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I still sounds like a lot.
34:00 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, there's a guy who's name is John Fox.
34:03 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He's famous for Fox's book of martyrs.
34:06 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to do an episode on him.
34:08 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The only sermons I have found on him are legitimately if I took them and I mean, they are 240 pages, which will be the equivalent of like six to seven hours of.
34:20 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_00]: of sermon and on like that is insane what on earth there is well as he actually talking for six hours and I have heard that there were some churches I haven't done the research we'll conclude this but I know that there once were some churches it seems that they would basically turn it into an all day affair like the pastor would kind of get
34:38 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_00]: part of a sermon, then there'd be like a Q&A, then they'd go to lunch, then they'd come back, the pastor might give the next part of the sermon.
34:44 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the okay, in that situation, you could really see how that could become a three to four hours, and that's what's happening there.
34:49 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure if that's what was going on with John Fox, but then I have a friend from Brazil, and he told me like, yeah, churches usually like an hour and a half of me preaching maybe two hours, sometimes, and I'm like, wow, I, so isn't, is us, we seem to have gotten our attention spans shorter
35:08 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't view church that way, but to be fair, it's also a long time coming, George Wifield once famously said, if your sermon's longer than 25 minutes, either you better be an angel or your audience better be angels because that's all you got.
35:21 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_00]: The last part was me at it on, but that's it, 25 minutes is enough after that, you're losing people or they're losing you and it's not going to go well.
35:30 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, and I don't know, that seems a little short, and I've also put some George with Field Sermons out.
35:34 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not 25 minutes long from when I can tell, uh, but his main point is, hey, you know, even back then, that you need to keep it shorter than maybe three hours, but it is, it is true.
35:44 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We have shorter attendance fans, and, you know, how I know, or maybe it's just me, maybe maybe you're listening, you're going, no, I'm able to sit perfectly still, but I get tempted to look at my phone.
35:53 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_00]: While I'm in church sometimes, I want to check messages.
35:56 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to know what's going on.
35:57 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not nice.
35:58 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And as someone has preached, I look out.
36:00 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I see people, they're on their phones.
36:02 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, some of them are on their Bible apps, but they're not because they're also messaging.
36:06 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you're preaching to people not only who just, who have a shorter attention span, but even while they're in church, they might be distracted by something and completely somewhere else because someone sent them a funny message or they're making plans for later that day.
36:20 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, that's something I don't, I don't think in the 1700s you're in the great awakening and Jonathan Edwards and then we're having to be like, hey, put your phones away, right?
36:27 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't, I'm pretty sure, pretty sure that wasn't happening.
36:30 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm, definitely, definitely.
36:33 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so this one is actually I think the main one and that that I recognize in my head as far as what when I compare Sherman's today to back then What I would have summarized here is evangelistic urgency.
36:50 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, back then wow No, I just want to say good one.
36:54 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great one right right there.
36:56 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_01]: There was this raw urgency aimed at string repentance in the communities there today
37:02 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Sermons are much more focused on encouragement or practical application or topical issues which, again, can all be very good things and, you know, people relate with them and talk with them, but I do think there has, we've lost a little bit of that, that edge of the proclamation of the gospel, people do not preach with that same evangelistic urgency today that,
37:30 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_01]: we did back then.
37:31 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And it just seems to be a cultural thing like society doesn't want to.
37:36 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of sad.
37:37 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's sad.
37:39 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think I do hope it's changing.
37:41 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I do think.
37:43 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for whatever reason, and if I could pinpoint it, it seems to be about 30 years ago or so, a lot of churches got it in their head that if you want people to come to the doors, come sit in the pews, you need to preach nicely, you need to be, you know, don't be preaching hellfire, don't be preaching after a life, even the word sin, some churches are scared to use it, you know.
38:05 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you preach nice enough, if you create good stories, if you have enough anecdotes, if you, if you put enough jokes, I had, I had a person message just show one time, basically we tell, tell us like I'm in seminary and I'm being told I don't put enough jokes in my sermons are jokes like a biblical church history thing and I was like, not really, I haven't noticed that many jokes in the sermons of the past, but this guy was told like I'm not putting enough jokes in my sermons.
38:27 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know what I'm saying?
38:29 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you do enough of these things and you friendly it all out and flesh it all out, they'll come to church, they'll listen, they'll enjoy it and they'll keep coming and eventually they'll get saved in their life will be changed and I'm not saying that didn't happen.
38:53 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're living in that moment anymore if it was there and I kind of wonder if that moment ever truly existed considering when I look at the great sermons of history one thing I do see kind of repeating throughout is I'm worried the people in my congregation are going to go to hell, so I'm going to preach them the gospel of Jesus Christ so they don't.
39:10 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And the great sermons, maybe there were a lot of other wishy washi sermons throughout history.
39:15 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of our pastors we feature are kind of saying like, hey, those other guys are but we're going to tell the truth here.
39:22 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe they were, but the sermons that last, the sermons that matter, the pastors that we know the names of today, the famous ones that made a difference.
39:29 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_00]: They're preaching Christ crucified.
39:31 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_00]: They're preaching hell is real and they're preaching sin needs to be a tone for and can only be a tone for through the gospel.
39:37 --> 39:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, you know, it's true.
39:40 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_00]: When I go to churches and when I hear people speak, I see
39:45 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I see just a reluctance to just go there.
39:47 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I see a lot of how can we help these people feel better.
39:51 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_00]: They need some hope and encouragement.
39:53 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_00]: They do.
39:53 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The most encouraging thing you can tell them is their sins have been a tone for by Jesus.
39:58 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's in this this odd thing, too, where I, in my experience, I don't...
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I try to go, I try to preach a little deep.
40:04 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I try to go into the weeds.
40:06 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I try to go to details.
40:07 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I love details and Bible stories.
40:10 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have a lot of people come up to me and go, wow, that was really great.
40:13 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed that.
40:14 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the way you put it.
40:15 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I love, and I'm not saying like, oh, I'm just an amazing person, not at all.
40:18 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But what I'm more just trying to say is like, people, I think want that deeper stuff.
40:22 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_00]: People listen to our sermons and they go, wow, like I've never heard.
40:25 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_00]: preaching and teaching just just thrown it all out there the way it is like actually just preaching it the way it feels like it's supposed to be you know can you really imagine Paul the possible or Peter the apostle um get nothing just kind of
40:40 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, just keep it at chill and not mentioning Jesus Jesus's cross right on the money and not mentioning hell and heaven and let's not say if your sermon doesn't include those two things in every time it's failed but do they.
40:52 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Another good example is I have some students we were talking if they had asked me some things they had seen on Tiktok online stuff about the end times and I asked a couple classes and stuff I was teaching I was like do you ever hear churches talking about the end times and almost none of them
41:10 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's uncommon.
41:11 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that the end times are being preached anymore, but what's really interesting is online.
41:17 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge thing.
41:18 --> 41:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the secular world is talking about things.
41:20 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there are so many people talking about the end times online.
41:25 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I can look at church history and find so many sermons about like, hey, you're gonna be judged someday.
41:29 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: This world's coming to an end, blah, blah, you know what I'm saying?
41:31 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it was definitely a topic throughout history.
41:34 --> 41:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And nowadays, it seems to be a topic that most of the church avoids.
41:37 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just scared of these deep controversial topics.
41:41 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just can't help but think that needs to come to an end.
41:45 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so that's actually pretty much all I got to retorty if anything, do anything else you would like to add?
41:49 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_01]: This has been a delightful conversation.
41:52 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some other cons is I don't think we've ever been, you know, I kind of mentioned it when I saw him out sermon, like, you know, having your phone out there in a service of, but I only we've ever been more easily distractable.
42:02 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And you might say, like, that sounds kind of like what we just said, but here's a little bit more.
42:07 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I say this?
42:07 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The attention span doesn't just go with the sermon.
42:10 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It also goes with afterwards.
42:12 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like after in the old days you go to church, you get the whole family out, you're all in suits or dresses, you go, you won't rewrite the wagon up the hill, you get there, two hours of preaching and teaching, you're singing together.
42:23 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's great, you go home.
42:25 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And what else do you have to do right here?
42:27 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe some books do some farm stuff, but I mean like you're still probably thinking a lot about what you did in church and who you talked to and it's gonna be a topic that probably sits with you throughout that week even.
42:38 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Not so much today, right?
42:40 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That time you get home, you might have already turned on a podcast on the way home.
42:43 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's completely different from what you were learning.
42:45 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully it's this podcast.
42:46 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But whatever whatever it is, you've already moved on.
42:49 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You get home, you flip on.
42:50 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a thousand different entertainment channels.
42:52 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe your family is going to throw on a Netflix or whatever it is.
42:56 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they're just going to hop on the news.
42:58 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You've been getting alerts all day.
42:59 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's this big story.
43:00 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's talking about it.
43:01 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I'm saying, though, it's not just that we have a short attention spans.
43:05 --> 43:10 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so many stuff that, and before you know it, by Sunday night, is anybody still talking or thinking about the sermon from Sunday morning, right?
43:10 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's already fush, it's out of our system, just that fast, because we live in such a fast pace world that I don't, I don't think it was quite the same for people back in the day.
43:21 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I think what was preached on Sunday, just because there wasn't as much to compete with, I think it was still on their minds, on Monday.
43:28 --> 43:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know.
43:29 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of times we have already fleshed out of our system and have already moved
43:34 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_00]: by the time Monday is hit, and that's definitely a unique con, I think, to our current era.
43:41 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know.
43:42 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Another unique con, and this is bad, with all the access to information pastors have the ability to cheat.
43:48 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_00]: This doesn't make sense, it's bad, but you can steal a sermon online, you can have chat, GPT, creative sermon, you can have, um, you can even not maybe have steal a sermon, but you can just kind of listen to several other pastors and kind of dissect and go, I'm going to just kind of pull, pick and pull what I like best.
44:03 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, there's just a temptation there that the pastors of the past would still have.
44:07 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We've covered Christmas Evans famously copied a pastor sermon the first time you ever preached and got caught, which must have been more to find for him.
44:15 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think God was trying to nip that the butterly, um, at the same time though.
44:20 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you could, I mean, I, we know it.
44:22 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually already a thing.
44:24 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's already confirmed that our pastors out there using Chad GBT and AI to help write their future sermons.
44:29 --> 44:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think,
44:30 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I call me old fashioned, but I don't think that's the best direction for sermons to head in, um, have these things written by AI, but you know they're coming, right?
44:39 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And has just a lot of stuff like that, that is just, it is, it is going to be a unique world where we move into.
44:47 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's where maybe if I can end it maybe this my final thought that's almost where I think the old fashion stuff is going to stand out in a world of fast you know to use that fast food candy at illustration and a world of fast food candy stuff where everything's kind of this fake quick nourishes you for a second but doesn't give you anything lasting that's where the real meat that's where real stuff that's where the genuine articles are going to I think stand out so much more and I think that
45:15 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_00]: people, maybe people won't immediately be used to it.
45:19 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They might be used to the other stuff.
45:20 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It might make them sick at first, but they're going to crave this real, meaningful, different kind of world that if the church can offer that and the fast-paced, crazy world on friendships and loneliness back in the day, people needed a community.
45:35 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So bad, you had to, you couldn't farm
45:38 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_00]: and make it on your own without the people around you working together, right?
45:41 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, at the doctor, you had to run the town and get them.
45:44 --> 45:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The farm catches fire, the whole neighborhood is going to put the, we don't need anybody anymore.
45:48 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We can truly live almost completely isolated.
45:52 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife started seeing these ads all over social media.
45:55 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I've, I've interacted with other people that are becoming common, where people are getting advertisements just for
46:02 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_00]: nitting groups and book club or book groups, you might say like oh well book clubs and nitting groups have been around for a long time, not this way.
46:08 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not getting together and knitting something together, not getting together and talking about a book together.
46:12 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_00]: There are people who just they're alone and they want to read someone else or they're alone and they just knit in the same room as other people.
46:21 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: These people are so lonely that they need someone to just spend time with them because they don't have anybody
46:26 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And especially as the younger generations, a lot of them are kind of casting aside marriage, casting aside children, which that's the own topic that's literally we could do an episode on how different that is in history.
46:37 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_00]: As these people get older, as they start as the loneliness of their life really starts to take effect.
46:42 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The church is going to stand out because the church is a place where community happens, where friendship actually can, if the church lets it happen, can be nourished well, where people should be coming together and spending time together.
46:55 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's going to be a unique thing that pastors are going to be preaching to people online, even maybe, that they don't even come inside the doors of their church.
47:02 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to be preaching to people where these people legitimately have no one else in their life and that.
47:09 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: is gonna be something unique to this era too.
47:11 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So the church has some challenges that they're gonna have to embrace, but I think the church has a real opportunity in front of it where these lonely people are gonna be seeking community.
47:19 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The church can open their doors and find ways to bring them in.
47:22 --> 47:27 [SPEAKER_00]: They might be able to see some real impact as the only people who care about those kinds of people.
47:28 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's some other just things out there that is just very unique to this moment in church history.
47:34 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely, okay.
47:35 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's a good place to wrap it up here.
47:39 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Listener, I'm sure you've been yelling at your phone saying, oh, you gotta say this.
47:46 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_01]: There's there you have to include this one.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Right into us.
47:49 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to hear revive thoughts at gmail.com.
47:51 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Revived thoughts at gmail.com.
47:55 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us, what do you think?
47:56 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:57 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We do better in the 21st century than they did back in olden days or vice versa.
48:03 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_01]: What did they do better back then that we suffer from the lack of today?
48:09 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure we've missed some good ones.
48:11 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So let us know right on in.
48:14 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_00]: uh Troy do you have anything actually I'm really yeah I'm really curious what other people will say Because I can think of things that we didn't add on like there's guys who I have people I really like that Would they share some of our stuff and they're they're their pastor like sermon reviewers like they go on YouTube and they review Servants that's certainly something that you would have never seen in the past like a like a Monday You know like a football review thing, but for servants So they just so there's so much there's so many things that are different today
48:39 --> 48:41 [SPEAKER_00]: that the world would have never understood back then.
48:42 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't have anything else to add.
48:44 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking forward to your guys' comments and your guys' emails and what you think we missed.
48:48 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The big one, maybe this one, like you said, that you're just like, how did you not mention this?
48:52 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but also, I hope that this episode was helpful.
48:54 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope maybe kind of putting yourself in the shoes of how hard our world is different today.
48:59 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it could maybe help you realize some of the things that maybe our church is missing today or that some of the things that we need to embrace and do and do more of Um, because I think that sometimes we get so stuck as I love doing or buy a thoughts because sometimes we get so stuck in the way everything's being done right now that the noise and the everything is happening in the world today is so important and it is but then I think sometimes when you kind of take that breather and look at history and see all the other things that have happened that have been really really important to Ever it can help you better understand current moment and what needs to be done right now
49:28 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This is Troy Angel, and this is Revive Thoughts.